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I am ashamed being Singaporean

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 08 May 2013 10:48 pm

Yeah, I read it the 1st day it was posted via FB.

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Postby thismyvoice » Wed, 08 May 2013 11:30 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:The US is no longer, if it ever was, civilized. Most will not help a traffic victim so some such because of the lawsuits that have happened.


Sorry, but I think you've fallen to the typical stereotypes having lived away so long. In my 20+ years in Chicago and 7+ years in California, I can easily say in almost all cases with a crowd, multiple people will be willing to help. Being the US, in the (very few) cases where someone won't help, it will be well publicized and all over the media. I mean, just look at the recent case in Ohio. A neighbor heard a girl call for help from behind a locked door, and he broke the door down to help her escape. There was no fire or any other incident that made it immediately apparent there was a danger. I would even bet you $1000 if Clark Quay incident here happened at any equivalent popular area in a major US city, that guy would have gotten physically restrained and 50% chance knocked out.


The following is extracted from The Tipping Point, a book by Malcom Gladwell.

In 1964, New York City, a young woman was stabbed to death. She was chased by her assailant and attacked 3 times on the street, over half an hour, as 38 of her neighbours watched from their windows. During that time, none of them called the police. Two psychologist conducted a study to understand what they dubbed the bystander problem. What they found, surprisingly was that one of the factors above all else that predicted helping behavior was how many witnesses there were to the event.

One experiment was when they have 1 student in the room stage an epileptic fit. When there was just one person next door listening, they will come and help 85% of the time. But when there are 4 others, they will help 31% of the time.

In another experiment, people who saw smoke seeping out of the doorway would report it 75% of the time when they are on their own, but the incident would only be reported 38% of the time when they are in a group. When people are in a group, responsibility for acting is diffused.

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Postby iamsen » Thu, 09 May 2013 4:48 am

The descent into idiotry has been quick.

I remember a particularly startling incident about 10 years ago. Initial D was the in thing and boy racers were speeding all over town. Just finished a late night movie at Marina Square with some friends, we were on the pavement outside when all these cars came zooming down the street, whatever it's called, the one under the bridge.

The slow guy slammed straight into a truck coming out of a by-road, the force was strong enough to throw the truck off several tens of metres. A movie just ended so there was a huge crowd streaming out. Immediately people started running towards the car and trucks, pulling the drivers and passengers out. Let's leave out whether or not that's a good thing. Important point was people reacted almost immediately.


That aside, this is a weird incident. You'd think that would be the perfect situation for a guy wanting to get laid, saving a damsel in distress. At a club no less.

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 09 May 2013 11:35 am

Melissa Low (the author) writes in her own article Comments:

I have blogged about this incident and the disgusting comments made here.
http:// ... [etc]
Most of you who commented have the pleasure of seeing your comments captured in a screenshot and posted on my blog, just so your message spreads far and wide.
You're welcome.
Next time, think before writing shit on the internet.


and

I am so freak ashamed to be Singaporean right now.

There might be more, but those were in the top two pages. The impression I get from these are that she is self-publicising, and decidedly vulgar. Oh, and then we are left wondering why she didn't step in to help. Surely you can't chastise others for doing nothing, when you did nothing yourself? :roll:

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Postby the lynx » Thu, 09 May 2013 11:39 am

thismyvoice wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:The US is no longer, if it ever was, civilized. Most will not help a traffic victim so some such because of the lawsuits that have happened.


Sorry, but I think you've fallen to the typical stereotypes having lived away so long. In my 20+ years in Chicago and 7+ years in California, I can easily say in almost all cases with a crowd, multiple people will be willing to help. Being the US, in the (very few) cases where someone won't help, it will be well publicized and all over the media. I mean, just look at the recent case in Ohio. A neighbor heard a girl call for help from behind a locked door, and he broke the door down to help her escape. There was no fire or any other incident that made it immediately apparent there was a danger. I would even bet you $1000 if Clark Quay incident here happened at any equivalent popular area in a major US city, that guy would have gotten physically restrained and 50% chance knocked out.


The following is extracted from The Tipping Point, a book by Malcom Gladwell.

In 1964, New York City, a young woman was stabbed to death. She was chased by her assailant and attacked 3 times on the street, over half an hour, as 38 of her neighbours watched from their windows. During that time, none of them called the police. Two psychologist conducted a study to understand what they dubbed the bystander problem. What they found, surprisingly was that one of the factors above all else that predicted helping behavior was how many witnesses there were to the event.

One experiment was when they have 1 student in the room stage an epileptic fit. When there was just one person next door listening, they will come and help 85% of the time. But when there are 4 others, they will help 31% of the time.

In another experiment, people who saw smoke seeping out of the doorway would report it 75% of the time when they are on their own, but the incident would only be reported 38% of the time when they are in a group. When people are in a group, responsibility for acting is diffused.


Hmm... :-k

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Postby Akimbo » Thu, 09 May 2013 12:04 pm

JR8 wrote:There might be more, but those were in the top two pages. The impression I get from these are that she is self-publicising, and decidedly vulgar. Oh, and then we are left wondering why she didn't step in to help. Surely you can't chastise others for doing nothing, when you did nothing yourself? :roll:


Err....she (Mellisa) was never at CQ during the harrassment...she's chastising the people who commented in Facebook as I see it...
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Postby x9200 » Thu, 09 May 2013 12:08 pm

@lynx, why hmmm? Makes perfect sense. Lack of action from other people is not only a reasuring factor but also discouraging at the same time respectively depending on the initial intension of the group member willing or not to help.

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 09 May 2013 12:09 pm

Akimbo wrote:Err....she (Mellisa) was never at CQ during the harrassment...she's chastising the people who commented in Facebook as I see it...


OIC, thanks for clarifying.

But still I am left with the impression of a foul-mouthed, self-publicising arm-chair evangelist.

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Postby the lynx » Thu, 09 May 2013 12:11 pm

x9200 wrote:@lynx, why hmmm? Makes perfect sense. Lack of action from other people is not only a reassuring factor but also discouraging at the same time respectively depending on the initial intention of the group member willing or not to help.


Oh no no, I actually agree to that and I was pondering on how serious this means. What a shuddering thought it would be to be a victim in such scenarios...

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Postby Akimbo » Thu, 09 May 2013 12:56 pm

x9200 wrote:@lynx, why hmmm? Makes perfect sense. Lack of action from other people is not only a reasuring factor but also discouraging at the same time respectively depending on the initial intension of the group member willing or not to help.


It is quite true. That's why when somebody is in an accident and you're helping them, you must point to somebody and say,

"You! Call the ambulance!" instead of just looking around and say,
"Anybody here a doctor?/Can someone call the ambulance?"

That's what was told in a safety course I saw once

JR8 wrote:OIC, thanks for clarifying.

But still I am left with the impression of a foul-mouthed, self-publicising arm-chair evangelist.


Truth be told JR8, though foul-mouthed, to me it's kinda good to see such direct honest comments instead of the stupid ones that you can see she's quoting in her blog from FB...

I'm tired of the same old sorts of comments that I keep seeing whenever I read articles from yahoo.sg or something. Don't they ever make smarter comments that tickles your brain?
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Postby JR8 » Thu, 09 May 2013 1:39 pm

Akimbo wrote:It is quite true. That's why when somebody is in an accident and you're helping them, you must point to somebody and say,

"You! Call the ambulance!" instead of just looking around and say,
"Anybody here a doctor?/Can someone call the ambulance?"

That's what was told in a safety course I saw once


Yes I agree, that is a part of 'Accident Scene Management'
- 'Who has a mobile?'
- 'Right, YOU call an ambulance now'
- 'Are there any trained medics here?'
- If so, then you agree with them that they take control of the medical side, and you can assist as directed, whilst you manage the scene for them. If no trained medics are present, you take over as appropriate (emergency first-aid/resuscitation/CPR etc), until the ambulance arrives.

When you have done an EFR course (and these are quite commonly offered via work, well, they are in the West: Note St. John's Ambulance also offer them...), and it only takes a half-day or so, you really feel empowered, and the steps as described above them seem like complete 'obvious' common-sense. Obvious, but only after being taught them :)


akimbo wrote: Truth be told JR8, though foul-mouthed, to me it's kinda good to see such direct honest comments instead of the stupid ones that you can see she's quoting in her blog from FB...

I'm tired of the same old sorts of comments that I keep seeing whenever I read articles from yahoo.sg or something. Don't they ever make smarter comments that tickles your brain?


Hmmm... the comments on yahoo.com.sg and the likes thereof, it's a bit like digging for gold in the comments of a Western tabloid newspaper: A rather futile exercise.

I agree that being free to comment is valuable. There is an elephant in the room though, that the writer does not acknowledge -
- people are naturally hesitant to get involved in what might be 'a domestic' (a relationship issue).
- The SGn culture seems to lean towards not showing leadership, using initiative, or taking control. (It's not just SG of course, it seems quite wide-spread in Asia).

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Postby morenangpinay » Fri, 10 May 2013 2:08 pm

Im trying to find a blog of a local who was disgusted with an event he come across..cant seem to find it. He saw a chinese woman injured .apparently she fell from the window of her unit. The guy called for help and a filipino guy came by to try talk to her but the lady could speak only chinese so they asked lokals to talk to her.but the local chinese guys refused and walked by.. there were three who passed by. Ending is they used the guys phone to dial the family's number. And also called the ambulance....the guy blogged about it because he was disgusted with the attitude of the three. I know it sound deprecating.i swear i read it in a facebook blog..

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 10 May 2013 3:05 pm

Okay, I wasn't gonna mention this but I can speak from first hand knowledge about the reticence towards "helping" others in need, especially in an accident/trauma setting.

Preface to this ramble. I was blown up in an explosion on a oil rig back in 1978 in the Gulf of Mexico (30% body burned and a month in the Baton Rouge Burn Center in Louisiana) and in another explosion in my back yard in Seletar Camp in 1988 (around 15% but same side! - stupid little black cloud always following me!) so I know fire and it's effects.

I guess it's been some 10 years ago now, there was a middle aged Chinese man who torched himself on the basketball court in the park my block faces.

This was around 3:30 in the morning. He had doused himself with kerosene and lite himself up like the human torch. He starting walking through the park with his arms outstretched and chanting something. As the flames were some 2 meters above his head (and starting from his ankles) he was completely enveloped in flames. My wife is an extremely light sleeper and the huge flames and his chanting caused her to wake up as she is beside the windows and we are on the 2nd floor (the guy wasn't more 15 meters away from the flat). When she screamed fire, it woke me up and due to many years on rigs, I was up, glanced at the direction, and on the way out of the bedroom yelled for her to call the police and bring a bucket of water. Meanwhile I grabbed a blanket as I went and down the single flight of stairs I hauled arse unfurling the blanket as I went and literally bulldozed the guy knocking him to the ground and rolling him up in the blanket on the ground to snuff the flames.

All of this commotion lights, flames, yelling, etc. had awoken probably half of the block (all bedrooms face the park). Meanwhile, my wife brought down the water and had called the police. I doused the blanket with the water and then saw what I could do for the guy. After about 10 minutes with me sitting on the ground with the guy and him trying to talk (scorched throat & lungs due to inhaling the flames) ONE old lone Chinese man appeared on the sidewalk next to the block. But it looked like a viewing gallery to look at all the heads in all the windows in a 10 story block of flats. I finally managed to coerce the old Chinese guy to come over to me to see if he could understand what the guy was trying to say. (seems he wanted something to drink so my wife ran upstairs and returned with a mug and pitcher of water - so important to keep fluids going into the body for burn victims - I know!) There I stayed until the ambulance arrived sitting in the park, with this breathing lump of charcoal's head propped up a bit so I could keep getting some water into him. Throughout the whole episode, aside from the one old man, nobody came down to offer any assistance to one of their own. Sad.

Aftermath. They got the guy to the hospital but I knew, in the park, he would never survive as he was burnt toast both outside and inside. He did, however, live for around 10 more hours, long enough for the family to see him one last time before he died. They were really grateful that I did what I could and begged me to come to his wake, which I did. They lived in the same general area but different "section" of the estate. But the big thing, that even upset my local wife, was the fact that NOBODY LIFTED A FINGER TO HELP except some crazy Ang Mo. Even the old man had to be "ordered" to try to interpret for me. But literally dozens of onlookers enjoying the spectacle.

Would I do it again? Yes. I'm now a long standing member of the Resident's Committee and also a member of CERT (Community Emergency Response Team) here as well as doing 1st aid refresher courses annually.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 10 May 2013 5:17 pm

Heavens, good for you. I can imagine that might have been very distressing for you after the event (putting it mildly).

I find it curious how in helping someone they somehow become part of you, your life-experience. You could say it is very selfish of them to force you into such an unexpected and traumatic experience, but they have not acted rationally so how can you blame them.

Perhaps a bit deep for 5pm....

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 10 May 2013 5:49 pm

JR8, I don't blame them, as it's probably the norm for most regardless of where you are. Me? I can't help it. It's just not my nature to "not get involved" if there might be something I can contribute. It wasn't a case of me being forced as I didn't think about it as it was an ingrained response which puts me there first and think about the ramifications later. Distressing? No, not at all. I do/did what I can. I'm otherwise pretty ambivalent about things like this. It was something that needed doing. I was the "first responder" so I did what was necessary. It's just sad that nobody offered any additional assistance. It isn't whether it was needed or not, just the idea that HAD I/he needed additional assistance, I/we couldn't/wouldn't have gotten any. (Aside from my wife running up and down the stairs & calling the police (which I was later told, she was the only caller). :?

Somehow reminds me of the old saying about life being cheap in Asia.


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