flat hunting without agent = mission possible?

[JR8]

In Japan, I've heard stories of 'key money' in the range of several months rent. This was years ago though. Is that no longer in practice?

That goes to the landlord, rather than the agent:


From Wikipedia:

'In Japan, reikin (礼金?, literally, "gratitude money") is a mandatory payment to the landlord that is often the same amount as the original deposit (shikikin). However, reikin can be the equivalent of six months (or more) of rent, but is typically the same as one to three months of rent. This money is considered a gift to the landlord and is not returned after the lease is canceled.

In recent years, an increasing number of landlords and real estate agencies have begun to offer reikin-free rental housing.'

[zzm9980]

In Japan, I've heard stories of 'key money' in the range of several months rent. This was years ago though. Is that no longer in practice?

That goes to the landlord, rather than the agent:


From Wikipedia:

'In Japan, reikin (礼金?, literally, "gratitude money") is a mandatory payment to the landlord that is often the same amount as the original deposit (shikikin). However, reikin can be the equivalent of six months (or more) of rent, but is typically the same as one to three months of rent. This money is considered a gift to the landlord and is not returned after the lease is canceled.

In recent years, an increasing number of landlords and real estate agencies have begun to offer reikin-free rental housing.'

So does the market account for this 'gift' and are rents appropriately lower? (Or should i assume, higher if this gift isn't required?)

[JR8]

So does the market account for this 'gift' and are rents appropriately lower? (Or should i assume, higher if this gift isn't required?)

My recollection is that it is rather invisible. If you're on an expat relo you're not paying it anyway... your HR will, and will have briefed their agent in what way to deal with such things.

I don't recall it impacting rent up or down, it is more simply a parallel 'gift'... but, one that is demanded.

[Brah]

In Japan, I've heard stories of 'key money' in the range of several months rent. This was years ago though. Is that no longer in practice?

That goes to the landlord, rather than the agent:

From Wikipedia:

'In Japan, reikin (礼金?, literally, "gratitude money") is a mandatory payment to the landlord that is often the same amount as the original deposit (shikikin). However, reikin can be the equivalent of six months (or more) of rent, but is typically the same as one to three months of rent. This money is considered a gift to the landlord and is not returned after the lease is canceled.

In recent years, an increasing number of landlords and real estate agencies have begun to offer reikin-free rental housing.'

So does the market account for this 'gift' and are rents appropriately lower? (Or should i assume, higher if this gift isn't required?)

The market has softened, rents are lower, key money is almost unheard of of late, shiki-kin is usually the same as before but sometime less months than before, but what some landlords are doing is keep the rent at a certain level and giving a few months rent-free. It's a buyer's market.

Back in the day companies would cover the shiki-kin (but you were liable for it) and banks would pay your rent out of your salary pre-tax. Sure wish they'd do that here. Plus in Japan your commutation is paid for.

Reikin is usually a month's rent.

[amarettoSour]

I got my current apartment without paying agent's fee. Like what has been mentioned here, we looked through all ads and viewed 5-6 places.

The trick is also knowing that one agent cannot represent both side (cant be both owner's agent and tenant's agent). If it's you doing all the work and finding the listing on your own, then whatever agent posting the listing is not YOUR agent, but the owner's. so the agent fee should come from the owner.

If you go to a viewing and two agent shows up, be clear that you are not represented by anyone. I had two agents pull this on me and expecting me to pay her agent fee when i was the one who contacted her about a listing (she didnt show me other places!). Thankfully we didn't get that apartment and i learned better

[JR8]

Me thinks a warning flare has just gone up.

Hopefully it proves equally illuminating for all.

[janiceliu88]

It's possible, but I'd only recommend it if you have quite a bit of time to look for a place. If you want to see viewings that aren't a waste of time getting an agent is the best way to do it, and while yes, a month's rent is significant, it also means that if you have any issues with the landlord later (re deposit, deductible claims that are lies, etc etc) the agent will settle it and you're less likely to end up screwed over. Also, you'll be able to find a place relatively quickly, which in my opinion is important.

[AngMoG]

It's possible, but I'd only recommend it if you have quite a bit of time to look for a place. If you want to see viewings that aren't a waste of time getting an agent is the best way to do it, and while yes, a month's rent is significant, it also means that if you have any issues with the landlord later (re deposit, deductible claims that are lies, etc etc) the agent will settle it and you're less likely to end up screwed over. Also, you'll be able to find a place relatively quickly, which in my opinion is important.

You would have to get one of the handful of good/competent agents to make it worth your while to get an agent on your (the tenant's) side that you pay 1/2 to 1 month's rent to. Odds are against you.

I think dealing with the owner's agent, and educating yourself a bit, is a much better use of money and time...

[Makingthemove]

Can, but only with a lot of footwork. Husband did this on initial fortnight over here while we were back in UK. Spent every evening after work scanning small ads in newspaper. Set up viewings to take place after work every day, and ALL day at weekends. Visited about 20 places with agents then agreed on an apartment and worked out the rent. We have a great agent and nice landlords - perhaps just lucky.

It is very possible but it's a job in itself.

[katbh]

If you are looking for a standard 2 year lease, you do not pay any fees. The landlord pays one month (or sometimes two months) rental to the agent for finding them a tenant. You pay nothing.
The process is -

You do a search on . or staits time or singaporeexpats.
You reply to an ad
The agent will show you this property and will run through any other properties that he/she thinks may suit you. You can then google the condos or the street address (or use the property sites) and you will see the faciilities that they offer, market rentals (ie what other advertisers are offering similar places for in the same condo) and can see how close they are to MRT, schools etc.
You enter into a LOI with a property you may be wanting and give a cheque for one month rent. At this time, you ask for anything you would like to be done. Usually a unit will be repainted before you go in but if necessary you can always try for a new kitchen, or built ins etc
If the lease goes ahead you pay 2 months as a bond and the cheque given at the LOI becomes your first month rent.
The Agent and the Landlord negotiate between themselves the fees that they pay. You pay nothing over and above your bond and rental.
For a one year lease, it is usual that you pay the fee (not the landlord) and you negotiate this with your agent. It is usually 1 months rental. Sometimes a landlord will pay the fee but it is not usual.

[AngMoG]

For a one year lease, it is usual that you pay the fee (not the landlord) and you negotiate this with your agent. It is usually 1 months rental. Sometimes a landlord will pay the fee but it is not usual.

I do not know where this comes from. One year and two-year lease is the same regarding agent's fees: if you engaged the agent to look for a flat for you, you pay him. If it is the owner's agent (e.g., because you replied directly to an ad of his on .), the owner pays him. I recently moved, for a 6 month lease, and the agent was the owner's agent, thus paid by the owner.

[katbh]

For rentals below SGD 2500, the tenant pays half a month’s rent for a one year lease and one month’s rent for a two year lease.
For rentals above SGD 2500, the tenant pays half a month’s rent for a one year lease; however for a two year lease, the agent does not collect any fee from the tenant and recovers all of the commission from the landlord.

[AngMoG]

For rentals below SGD 2500, the tenant pays half a month’s rent for a one year lease and one month’s rent for a two year lease.
For rentals above SGD 2500, the tenant pays half a month’s rent for a one year lease; however for a two year lease, the agent does not collect any fee from the tenant and recovers all of the commission from the landlord.

If an agent collects commission from both the landlord and the tenant, he is in breach of the law, and should be reported to the CEA. If he clearly represents the owner, but tries to collect commission from the agent, the same thing applies, but is sadly not as easily proven.

What you mention used to be the case before the reform of 2010, when dual representation was finally outlawed. Now, no matter how high the rental or how long the lease is, whether it is sale or rental, room, condo or HDB, the rules are very clear:
- If the agent represents the owner, the owner pays him/her (usually the case for any ads online or in newspapers that you reply to)
- If you engage an agent to represent you as a tenant, you pay him/her

[katbh]

Basically (in my 11 moves in Singapore experience), It is either / or. Never both

Either you the tenant pay the agent OR the landlord pays the agent. I have never been in a situation where both pay. That would be a bluff and should be discouraged.

It has always been the practice (unless you have a bluffing agent) that only one party pays - the tenant or the landlord. Who paid was a matter for negotiation, but basically a low rental or short tenancy - the tenant paid (not the landlord). For normal tenancy and rental landlord paid.
If there were two agents, they would split the fee.

But of course there is plenty of opportunity for landlords in the know to bluff new expats. Also there is a tendency to shrug it off saying the 'employer pays' so does not matter to the tenant. As an employer...I object to this and will only do the standard.

[janiceliu88]

It's possible, but I'd only recommend it if you have quite a bit of time to look for a place. If you want to see viewings that aren't a waste of time getting an agent is the best way to do it, and while yes, a month's rent is significant, it also means that if you have any issues with the landlord later (re deposit, deductible claims that are lies, etc etc) the agent will settle it and you're less likely to end up screwed over. Also, you'll be able to find a place relatively quickly, which in my opinion is important.

You would have to get one of the handful of good/competent agents to make it worth your while to get an agent on your (the tenant's) side that you pay 1/2 to 1 month's rent to. Odds are against you.

I think dealing with the owner's agent, and educating yourself a bit, is a much better use of money and time...

I've actually been really lucky in my housing search and agents, then! But I can say this - take pictures of everything in case your landlord tries to forfeit your deposit on account of "damages" or "bad condition of house" or whatever - there are absolutely no tenant rights here