appreciate any help: LOC-related

Droste 2012 · Post by **Droste 2012** » Sat, 27 Apr 2013 2:20 pm

Hello,

I REALLY need any help or insight regarding this matter please!

I have registered a sole-proprietorship business with ACRA (not a high-end type of business though, a consignment for maternity & children's items), and went ahead with renting a small affordable shop to start my business in (as it's mention in LOC to write down the address of where the applicant will work in) so I had to go with the rent before applying to LOC in order to mention everything correctly.

the place where I rent (so called "centre") is NOT actually that type of shopping malls you would think of, it mainly consists of offices, tuition centres, clinic and other small business rather than actual commercial retail stores.

I got the reply that my LOC to work as a manager for my business had been rejected. I called to inquire about the reason, only to be told that they do not give LOC for shopping centres as it is no longer considered as an employer/employee relationship!!! (don't even know what does that mean)

So I asked what would be the suggestion since I REALLY REALLY want to go ahead with this business since I have already went ahead with renting and simple renovating and stuff, I was told to apply for EntrePass, I told them that I do NOT fit for EntrePass since I am NOT a company (I am a sole-proprietorship), I do NOT have any paid-up capital (since all my items are second hand items passed on from friends to sell on their behalf), I do NOT wish to hire any employees (since the business doesn't need more staff).... I am not even sure that the officer attending my request had any idea of what I'm talking about and trying to explain!!

and at the end of the call I was told to drop off the idea of running my business and find a job in a company, which I also explain it proved to be impossible here in Singapore since I have been looking for a job for months and months to NO AVAIL as employers ONLY requests Singaporeans or PR's to apply and no room for DP's!!!

Any DP business owner (sole-propiertorship) in a shopping centre: how did you apply for your work pass? any other person may shed some light to this matter I would truly appreciate it!

is there something missing here I don't get or something extra I should be doing?

Please any help is REALLY appreciated!

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sat, 27 Apr 2013 4:02 pm

Basically, the information you were told is correct. The point is, that you are trying to work in Singapore without being "qualified", e.g., Foreigners are supposed to be Foreign Talent. That was the reasons your spouse was hired. You are accompanying baggage that they have to accept in the country in order to get the talent that they require. The LoC is something that is offered as a sop to trailing spouses who really want to stay out of the country clubs or SAHMs cooped up in the homes all day. However, there are a lot of codicils that they attach to this "gift" (and it IS a gift as they are not required to give trailing spouses anything with regard to employment). Therefore, starting a business is generally a non-starter unless doing work from home, on your PC, working for a company back in your home country OR going the entrepass route. Otherwise you are pretty much limited to finding a proper job. Remember, they don't even need to allow you to find a job at all, if they don't want to. They allow your spouse to work. Anything thing more is a favour so you cannot complain.

I know this comes across as rough, and I am sorry, but frankly, this is the way it is. I don't sugar coat.

sms

NB: Up till a year or so ago, you could almost always get a LoC for any position being offered except for a few. Now it seems to be getting even harder to get the LoC for a proper job as well. You might need to get yourself a local partner and have them start the Pte Ltd company and then try to get a EP for that, but then a whole bunch of academic and other factors would come into play as well so you might still not be granted an EP.

Droste 2012 · Post by **Droste 2012** » Sat, 27 Apr 2013 7:03 pm

hhmmm, thanks for the reply.

however that is really really sad!!!

I was wondering though if it makes any sense to resubmit my LOC with salary ZERO, would that be acceptable in a LOC? as I am truly not looking for any type of profit business, as much as I am looking for something fun and enjoy doing it, and to actually DO something rather than staying idle and doing nothing or as you said going to country clubs...etc

I know that I cannot be a consultant or a trainer...etc running a business from home, because I do not have what it takes or the relevant experience to do so. That's why I was thinking of such business (again not for profit reason) that I really enjoy and find myself doing it!! HOW REALLY REALLY SAD!!!

Thanks

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sat, 27 Apr 2013 7:18 pm

Suggestion? If it is keeping busy you want, and not necessarily earning an income, I would suggest the following which a lot of trailing spouses do....

http://www.nvpc.org.sg/

http://www.sgcares.org/public/other/SGCares_P_Home.aspx

helping a non-profit charitable organization do both good for those receiving and also does good for the giver of their time. Time is more precious than money when you stop to think about it. You can recoup your money, but not time given.

Droste 2012 · Post by **Droste 2012** » Sat, 27 Apr 2013 7:34 pm

well, thank you so much for your suggestion I really appreciate it

but (I really don't want to seem bad here) I don't see/feel myself in the charity/volunteering kind of stuff YET (please don't get me wrong, please!).
As I come from a business-oriented background, have been in business development and public relations industry for long time right before relocating to Singapore, thus I STILL see/find/feel myself eager to go back to business sector where I do really enjoy (again not for profit reasons) but for the sake of keeping my sanity and actually do some work!

Having said that though, I think it's "maybe" time for me to consider charity and/or volunteer work away from business life - IF I consumed all the possible legal options for me to get a chance with my intended business (which how shame I have done great deal of renovating and preparing already!

)

Still; would a ZERO salary be valid in a LOC? Thanks a lot!

JR8 · Post by **JR8** » Sat, 27 Apr 2013 8:19 pm

I would have thought, regarding the requirement for an address on the LoC, that would assume that you are taking up a job-offer from an established employer. In your situation would you not write 'TBC on approval of this application' or similar?

What kind of lease have you got the shop-unit on (what term, roughly what scale of rent)?

How did you determine the viability of your business model (you say you have a background in business development)? I ask because in my experience most SGns do not favour 2nd hand anything, and are positively not interested in things like 2nd hand clothes - and that is despite how 'financially prudent' they are reputed to be.

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sat, 27 Apr 2013 8:34 pm

There are already two well established in that business here. The Salvation Army and Cash Converters (with locations all over the island). At the bottom rung is "theive's market" which are bums/tramps/karung guni men with their carts of junk selling on the side of lanes in little India. There are also a number of "flea markets" or car boot sales in the outlying areas periodically. I believe there are also stalls for this on one of the quays as well near Liang Court - or their used to be anyway.

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sat, 27 Apr 2013 8:43 pm

Droste 2012 wrote:
Still; would a ZERO salary be valid in a LOC? Thanks a lot!

I really don't know the answer to that. If you are working for zero salary, isn't that being unemployed? I have my doubts, but nothing stopping you from trying. I, personally, don't think it will fly though. I have been wrong before though.

Droste 2012 · Post by **Droste 2012** » Sat, 27 Apr 2013 8:51 pm

Regarding the business address, I assumed that I "should" mention the correct actual address as I do not intend to put any false or vague information that might cause me legal troubles later - however this TBC didn't come across my mind!

Regarding the rent, I have secured a place with 2-year lease term, for $800 a month (20 sqm if that makes any difference).

Regarding the type of business, yes you are right I have been told so, but I was/am willing to take the risk and chance to introduce this concept here in Singapore, as I feel confident of my skills to "market" it AND I am only targeting quality and brand names "like-new" items to consign with, of course offered with lower cost than normal - thus I am really not worried about it, though every start will have some time to kick off!

Droste 2012 · Post by **Droste 2012** » Sat, 27 Apr 2013 9:07 pm

yeah, I would give it a try with the zero salary in my appeal, and hopefully I can get myself heard/understood clearly this time, however, it's the address that I'm worried about and don't really wish it to be kept vague..

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Also, how many times am I allowed to re-submit LOC and/or appeal (just asking in case my second attempt got also rejected)?

Thank you all!

Post by **Strong Eagle** » Sat, 27 Apr 2013 9:34 pm

Have you read the threads in the Careers section regarding the LOC?

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic75000.html

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic60398.html

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic94278.html

Droste 2012 · Post by **Droste 2012** » Sat, 27 Apr 2013 11:42 pm

Many thanks for the links, I find them very useful as I read through them.

Something actually hit my mind as I read in one of the posts:
"As with the Entrepass, businesses not of an entrepreneurial nature (e.g. coffee shops/hawker centres/food courts, foot reflexology/massage parlours, karaoke lounges, money changing/remitting, newspaper vending, geomancy and tuition services etc) will not be considered for a letter of consent."

I do remember the MOM officer on phone told me that my LOC was rejected because of the word "centre" in my business address: (XX Shopping Centre) and they do not give LOC for such business - COULD IT BE POSSIBLE that he mixed between hawker centre vs shopping centre????!!!!!

OHHH if that's the case, I really don't know what to say... I am really speechless!!!!!

well, in all cases I am definitely planning to submit my appeal and see how would it go through this time.

Droste 2012 · Post by **Droste 2012** » Sun, 28 Jul 2013 10:18 pm

Soooo,

After re-submitting my LOC appeal (back in May) I finally got the approval ONLY TODAY in the mail!!

took a while to get a reply this time, but yeahhhhh worth the waiting and the try

P.S: I didn't submit a ZERO salary though, in fact I submitted the SAME info I did before, didn't change anything, I only elaborated more in the cover letter I attached, explaining more about my situation and what I am looking for in this business....etc and YAYYYY got it through.

Thank you very much for any advice you have offered me, at the end I honestly think "at some point" it depends on WHO sees your application and how they look at it

now off I go to my business that I put on hold for the last 3 months!!!!

Post by **sundaymorningstaple** » Sun, 28 Jul 2013 11:09 pm

Congratulations. And thanks for coming back to let us know. Good skinny for the database. This will also give hope to be patient and persistent to those who follow.

Cheers

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appreciate any help: LOC-related

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