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Wd40
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Postby Wd40 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:18 pm

the lynx wrote:I'm actually very interested in the similarity of Raj's and WD's responses. It is almost collective.


Ofcourse, as an Indian I do not deny that there is crime and problems in our society, but my stand is that there is crime and problems everywhere. Pinpointing on our culture and making that as the cause of crime is something that I wont accept.

I had been to Dallas, TX in 2004 and met my US colleagues there and I was there for just 15 days and I can tell you there are big problems there.

1) In the team of about 8 females there almost 4-5 of them had been divorced and 3 of them were single mothers. Thats a very rate of divorces. If you think arrange marriages are bad, atleast it works in majority of cases.

2) There is lots of stigma against blacks there. Our team there was entirely whites and we were specifically told that if we see some blacks on the street, ignore them, they can be dangerous.

So every society has problems and no culture is perfect.
Last edited by Wd40 on Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zzm9980
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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:19 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote: nothing to report? surely not

Surely not? Why do you say that? It was well reported that police in India made it very difficult to register rape complaints, and would stone-wall victims attempts to do so.

http://www.businessinsider.com/delhi-po ... nts-2013-3

Before the December gang-rape, Mishra said, Delhi police had a policy in many instances of investigating incidents before registering a formal case, leading to complaints by women that authorities were turning a blind eye to sex crimes.
But now "the instruction is clear -- every crime incident should be recorded", said Mishra.



And I'm sure you're going to give us stats on that spiked drinks and date rape "fact", and it isn't just an off the cuff opinion, right?

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zzm9980
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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:23 pm

Wd40 wrote:1) In the team of about 8 females there almost 4-5 of them had been divorced and 3 of them were single mothers. Thats a very rate of divorces. If you think arrange marriages are bad, atleast it works in majority of cases.


Right, in India they just beat their wives instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_v ... l_practice

According to a 1996 survey of 6,902 men in Uttar Pradesh, up to 45% of men acknowledged that they at one point or another had physically abused their wife.

45% are willing to *admit* it. That speaks volumes about the culture IMO.

2) There is lots of stigma against blacks there. Our team there was entirely whites and we were specifically told that if we see some blacks on the street, ignore them, they can be dangerous.


Unrelated pointless anecdote is unrelated and pointless.

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Postby Wd40 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:29 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:1) In the team of about 8 females there almost 4-5 of them had been divorced and 3 of them were single mothers. Thats a very rate of divorces. If you think arrange marriages are bad, atleast it works in majority of cases.


Right, in India they just beat their wives instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_v ... l_practice

According to a 1996 survey of 6,902 men in Uttar Pradesh, up to 45% of men acknowledged that they at one point or another had physically abused their wife.

45% are willing to *admit* it. That speaks volumes about the culture IMO.

2) There is lots of stigma against blacks there. Our team there was entirely whites and we were specifically told that if we see some blacks on the street, ignore them, they can be dangerous.


Unrelated pointless anecdote is unrelated and pointless.


Like I said, no culture is perfect. If you go ask an Indian whether you want his daughter to grow up in the US or India, most likely he will say India.

Read this great article about how Indians dont want their daughters to grow in America. It also in essence addresses the full gender bias in India.

http://www.firstpost.com/living/the-nri ... 19752.html
Last edited by Wd40 on Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rajagainstthemachine
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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:32 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote: nothing to report? surely not



Surely not? Why do you say that? It was well reported that police in India made it very difficult to register rape complaints, and would stone-wall victims attempts to do so.

http://www.businessinsider.com/delhi-po ... nts-2013-3

Before the December gang-rape, Mishra said, Delhi police had a policy in many instances of investigating incidents before registering a formal case, leading to complaints by women that authorities were turning a blind eye to sex crimes.
But now "the instruction is clear -- every crime incident should be recorded", said Mishra.



And I'm sure you're going to give us stats on that spiked drinks and date rape "fact", and it isn't just an off the cuff opinion, right?



1. Not reporting a rape exacerbates the issue. The whole idea of making so much noise about the Delhi rape was to generate enough intensity to make it a national issue and spread awareness.
whether reporting such an issue culminates in conviction and sentence of the rapists or not is another matter.


2. did you even look at that link I posted properly or not?

7.2% of the rapes occurred in a party
2.2% of rapes happened in a bar
47 % Percent of rapes where both victim and perpetrator had been drinking.

Source: U.S. Bureau of Justice , CDC, Koss, Gidycz & Wisniewski College Study, United Nations
Date Verified: 7.26.2012
Rape is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse, which is initiated by one or more persons against another person without that person’s consent. A person who commits an act of rape is known as a rapist. The act may be carried out by physical force, coercion, abuse of authority or with a person who is incapable of valid consent. Victims of rape can be severely traumatized by the assault and may have difficulty functioning as well as they had been used to prior to the assault, with disruption of concentration, sleeping patterns and eating habits.
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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:44 pm

Off topic but some what related to wife beating and drinking culture

. During my time in the army, when the Chinese Officers or NCOs got drunk they keep it to themselves and at the most hurt themselves by landing flat on the face.
Indian Officers especially NCOs when they got drunk they will fight and make a mess of the whole place
My neighbors which were Indians were the noisiest on my floor . Once the hubby got drunk, the wife got the brunt. I noticed these trend on the next block across my apartment too.
Now, we have two Punjabis neighbors and the same thing are happening.
Coincidence ? Not sure
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Postby Wd40 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:50 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:Off topic but some what related to wife beating and drinking culture

. During my time in the army, when the Chinese Officers or NCOs got drunk they keep it to themselves and at the most hurt themselves by landing flat on the face.
Indian Officers especially NCOs when they got drunk they will fight and make a mess of the whole place
My neighbors which were Indians were the noisiest on my floor . Once the hubby got drunk, the wife got the brunt. I noticed these trend on the next block across my apartment too.
Now, we have two Punjabis neighbors and the same thing are happening.
Coincidence ? Not sure


So you think all Indians or most Indians beat up their wives? If you really saw that happen, why didnt you go and complain to the police? The countries you are talking about, have proper law enforcement, no?
Last edited by Wd40 on Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:51 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:1) In the team of about 8 females there almost 4-5 of them had been divorced and 3 of them were single mothers. Thats a very rate of divorces. If you think arrange marriages are bad, atleast it works in majority of cases.


Right, in India they just beat their wives instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_v ... l_practice

According to a 1996 survey of 6,902 men in Uttar Pradesh, up to 45% of men acknowledged that they at one point or another had physically abused their wife.

45% are willing to *admit* it. That speaks volumes about the culture IMO.

2) There is lots of stigma against blacks there. Our team there was entirely whites and we were specifically told that if we see some blacks on the street, ignore them, they can be dangerous.


Unrelated pointless anecdote is unrelated and pointless.


1. I thought the term wife beater (to describe a singlet) originated in the united States

2. It's to do with poverty and ignorance than culture. Our culture was quite open to sex until a bunch of westerners stepped in to police immoral behaviour.
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Postby the lynx » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:55 pm

I'm sorry to say this, but where I grew up, we have many Indian households as neighbours. I remember the scary feeling when I was a child, listening to the sounds of beatings and shouting by the drunken husbands on their wives and the children after they had too many thani. And the police that time do not deal with domestic abuse unless the victims go to hospitals or die.

Not all fortunately, but you know what people say when they tar everyone with the same brush...

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 5:01 pm

the lynx wrote:I'm sorry to say this, but where I grew up, we have many Indian households as neighbours. I remember the scary feeling when I was a child, listening to the sounds of beatings and shouting by the drunken husbands on their wives and the children after they had too many thani.

Not all fortunately, but you know what people say when they tar everyone with the same brush...


Try rural Australia or Red Neck Alley in the USA or South America or Eastern Europe, wife beating is prevalent almost everywhere
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 5:57 pm

Trying to divert the story will not extract you from the corner you find yourself. Frankly, the stories of Indian wife beaters here in Singapore are numerous as well. You have to learn a bit of humility when faced with insurmountable odds stacked up against you. Railing on about "other" countries doesn't make your own country look better, it only makes you look foolish.......

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Postby Wd40 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 6:17 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Trying to divert the story will not extract you from the corner you find yourself. Frankly, the stories of Indian wife beaters here in Singapore are numerous as well. You have to learn a bit of humility when faced with insurmountable odds stacked up against you. Railing on about "other" countries doesn't make your own country look better, it only makes you look foolish.......


Frankly speaking the Indians in Singapore or Malaysia(like Lynx pointed out) or Australia/NZ(like MS pointed out) or wherever are not Indians. They are Singaporeans, Malaysians or Australians. They are like what 4th or 5th gen? So they should have lost most links with Indian cultures especially the wife beating aspect unless thats passed on from father to child or you think its ingrained in their genes? :roll:

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 6:39 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:
1. I thought the term wife beater (to describe a singlet) originated in the united States


So what does that mean? If it means anything at all, it's that the US is the first society to recognize this as a negative thing and assign it a negative label?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 7:34 pm

Wd40 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Trying to divert the story will not extract you from the corner you find yourself. Frankly, the stories of Indian wife beaters here in Singapore are numerous as well. You have to learn a bit of humility when faced with insurmountable odds stacked up against you. Railing on about "other" countries doesn't make your own country look better, it only makes you look foolish.......


Frankly speaking the Indians in Singapore or Malaysia(like Lynx pointed out) or Australia/NZ(like MS pointed out) or wherever are not Indians. They are Singaporeans, Malaysians or Australians. They are like what 4th or 5th gen? So they should have lost most links with Indian cultures especially the wife beating aspect unless thats passed on from father to child or you think its ingrained in their genes? :roll:


I still think you are wrong. They are still ethnically Indians, Nationalities might change but unless there is intermarriage, then the ethnicity and possible pre-dispositions probably still exists. National laws, depending on the severity may quell the urges, but it just like the American Indian. After all these years, you don't give them too much firewater as they just cannot handle it, generally speaking. Frankly, alcohol seems to cause the same aggressive reactions from both types of Indians from what I've seen. So, while the innate desires might still be there, their location may prevent them from always acting out those desires. In India, the laws are so lax they feel they can do as they damned well please as the woman is considered inferior there. In a country where there are equal rights under the law AND enforced, they might stifle the "urge".

only my 2¢ worth

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 8:03 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Trying to divert the story will not extract you from the corner you find yourself. Frankly, the stories of Indian wife beaters here in Singapore are numerous as well. You have to learn a bit of humility when faced with insurmountable odds stacked up against you. Railing on about "other" countries doesn't make your own country look better, it only makes you look foolish.......


No one is trying to divert stories here SMS, it's just that whats happening in India is not new, all I am saying is that it's no different compared to whats happening in other countries in the world. The difference is that in other countries the law enforcement and citizen protection is better.
What I cannot understand here is people going about cultures and looking down upon women blah blah which leads to rapes and theories and whatnot.
As Indians we all acknowledge the problem we have and there are several vociferous protests to improve the situation but several posters in this thread seem to act like they are subject matter experts on rapes and their causes in India and that seems equally foolish too. we have a whole bunch of people ready to jump at conclusions based on what they read on the Internet.
Last edited by rajagainstthemachine on Thu, 04 Apr 2013 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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