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zzm9980
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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 2:34 pm

Wd40 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... rder-cases

Interesting article in the India Times


That article is boring and predictable if you are an Indian, But this one is interesting:

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2013/03/r ... merica-too



This one isn't boring or predictable:
http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2013/01/ ... get-raped/

I'd love to quote the whole thing, but it is way too long. I'll just include a few of India's esteemed leaders' opinions:


Understandable?
[quote]BJP MP Ramesh Bais told reporters referring to the rape case involving minor inmates of a government-run residential school: “The rape of grown-up girls and women might be understandable, but if someone does this to an infant, it is a heinous crime and the offenders should be hanged.â€Â

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 2:51 pm

I checked the article. It's not from the '50s. Just making sure.

Rape can happen in any society but if that society demonizes the victims, blames certain freedoms or attributes it to some bogeyman, the previous 70 years called; they want their backward, chauvinistic, superstitious and grossly misinformed thinking back.

zzm9980 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... rder-cases

Interesting article in the India Times


That article is boring and predictable if you are an Indian, But this one is interesting:

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2013/03/r ... merica-too



This one isn't boring or predictable:
http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2013/01/ ... get-raped/

I'd love to quote the whole thing, but it is way too long. I'll just include a few of India's esteemed leaders' opinions:


Understandable?
[quote]BJP MP Ramesh Bais told reporters referring to the rape case involving minor inmates of a government-run residential school: “The rape of grown-up girls and women might be understandable, but if someone does this to an infant, it is a heinous crime and the offenders should be hanged.â€Â

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 2:52 pm

x9200 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Treating women as lesser doesn't mean it brings rapist tendencies in men.

Of course it does, unless, as I said earlier, the Indian society is somehow special what I doubt is the case. If it is possible to abuse someone because this person is less respected (meaning weaker) there will be a long queue waiting to do this. If women were strong and dominating in your society do you really think the number of the rapes would stay the same? Wake up WD40, it is not a crusade against Indians, just a small battle for a common sense.



If thats the case why do western countries ( notably USA, and Sweden ) where equality of sexes is in effect have the highest number of rapes?

http://www.statisticbrain.com/rape-statistics/
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Postby nakatago » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 2:56 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:
x9200 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Treating women as lesser doesn't mean it brings rapist tendencies in men.

Of course it does, unless, as I said earlier, the Indian society is somehow special what I doubt is the case. If it is possible to abuse someone because this person is less respected (meaning weaker) there will be a long queue waiting to do this. If women were strong and dominating in your society do you really think the number of the rapes would stay the same? Wake up WD40, it is not a crusade against Indians, just a small battle for a common sense.



If thats the case why do western countries ( notably USA, and Sweden ) where equality of sexes is in effect have the highest number of rapes?

http://www.statisticbrain.com/rape-statistics/


Are you confusing correlation with causality?

Did it also occur to you that in some societies, some rapes are not reported because of the extreme stigma on the victim?

Geez, man! Open your eyes.

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 3:03 pm

nakatago wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:
x9200 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Treating women as lesser doesn't mean it brings rapist tendencies in men.

Of course it does, unless, as I said earlier, the Indian society is somehow special what I doubt is the case. If it is possible to abuse someone because this person is less respected (meaning weaker) there will be a long queue waiting to do this. If women were strong and dominating in your society do you really think the number of the rapes would stay the same? Wake up WD40, it is not a crusade against Indians, just a small battle for a common sense.



If thats the case why do western countries ( notably USA, and Sweden ) where equality of sexes is in effect have the highest number of rapes?

http://www.statisticbrain.com/rape-statistics/


Are you confusing correlation with causality?

Did it also occur to you that in some societies, some rapes are not reported because of the extreme stigma on the victim?

Geez, man! Open your eyes.



Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say here,

x9200 was of the opinion that men have rapist tendencies attributable to treating women as lesser beings ( Indian culture mostly falls under that bracket)
whilst here I am trying to counteract his argument by saying even in cultures where equality of sexes exist rapes do occur.
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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 3:12 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
This one isn't boring or predictable:
http://blogs.reuters.com/india/2013/01/ ... get-raped/



I've seen that article before, yes it's true our country is in shambles due to a complete breakdown of law and order and proper governance. People like those always looking to shield the blame away or turn a blind eye to the ground realities.
Those however are not the views of the common man out there.
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 3:22 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:If thats the case why do western countries ( notably USA, and Sweden ) where equality of sexes is in effect have the highest number of rapes?

http://www.statisticbrain.com/rape-statistics/


I would suspect due to much better legal systems, better reporting of crimes, and a much broader definition of 'rape'. What would put someone on a sex offenders list for the rest of their lives in the states is just another night of mis-aligned stars and Chow-Mein in India. "Nothing to report, move along!"

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 3:23 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:Those however are not the views of the common man out there.


Are you sure? Those are almost all people the 'common man' elected.

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 3:26 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:Those however are not the views of the common man out there.


Are you sure? Those are almost all people the 'common man' elected.


did you know how many elections are rigged?
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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 3:32 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:If thats the case why do western countries ( notably USA, and Sweden ) where equality of sexes is in effect have the highest number of rapes?

http://www.statisticbrain.com/rape-statistics/


I would suspect due to much better legal systems, better reporting of crimes, and a much broader definition of 'rape'. What would put someone on a sex offenders list for the rest of their lives in the states is just another night of mis-aligned stars and Chow-Mein in India. "Nothing to report, move along!"


Probably better reporting of crimes and a broader definition of rape might make sense, nothing to report? surely not

date rapes and spiking drinks are more a western thing and occur far more frequently than a gang rape.
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Postby x9200 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 3:41 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:
nakatago wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:
x9200 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Treating women as lesser doesn't mean it brings rapist tendencies in men.

Of course it does, unless, as I said earlier, the Indian society is somehow special what I doubt is the case. If it is possible to abuse someone because this person is less respected (meaning weaker) there will be a long queue waiting to do this. If women were strong and dominating in your society do you really think the number of the rapes would stay the same? Wake up WD40, it is not a crusade against Indians, just a small battle for a common sense.



If thats the case why do western countries ( notably USA, and Sweden ) where equality of sexes is in effect have the highest number of rapes?

http://www.statisticbrain.com/rape-statistics/


Are you confusing correlation with causality?

Did it also occur to you that in some societies, some rapes are not reported because of the extreme stigma on the victim?

Geez, man! Open your eyes.



Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say here,

x9200 was of the opinion that men have rapist tendencies attributable to treating women as lesser beings ( Indian culture mostly falls under that bracket)
whilst here I am trying to counteract his argument by saying even in cultures where equality of sexes exist rapes do occur.


What Nak says is that the quoted statistic is unlikely correct as it does not include the society stigma as well as unbelief that any justice will be done factor. In other words we don't know what are the actual numbers. Example, after the Delhi case the No of reported rapes (IIRC in Delhi) increased by over 600%. As I don't think the Indians started to rape more frequently it was probably some other reason behind.
Even in the Western countries not all the cases are reported but women are more aware of their rights and know that likelihood of justice (lets not even touch some fake cases) to be done is high. I am afraid is not the case in many other countries.

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Postby Wd40 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 3:48 pm

x9200 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Treating women as lesser doesn't mean it brings rapist tendencies in men.

Of course it does, unless, as I said earlier, the Indian society is somehow special what I doubt is the case. If it is possible to abuse someone because this person is less respected (meaning weaker) there will be a long queue waiting to do this. If women were strong and dominating in your society do you really think the number of the rapes would stay the same? Wake up WD40, it is not a crusade against Indians, just a small battle for a common sense.


Sorry I completely disagree. The people who rape are criminals and it needs a criminal mind to go a attack a women and rape her. Its true that Indian society women are not treated upto par with men in terms of what they can and cannot do, but thats not disrespect or considered as weak as you have put it.

Considering women as lesser beings and then raping them are worlds apart.

Infact the delhi rapists too had stole a bus, robbed another couple off Rs 8000 and then committed the rape. They were criminals.

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 3:53 pm

Right on the subject.
Bihar woman avenges crime, burns down ‘rapist’
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 36745.aspx
[..]the woman at first contemplated self-immolation out of shame and even poured kerosene on herself. Thereafter, she changed her mind and decided to seek revenge.

How strong the fear of stigma can get?

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Postby the lynx » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 3:56 pm

I'm actually very interested in the similarity of Raj's and WD's responses. It is almost collective.

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 4:07 pm

the lynx wrote:I'm actually very interested in the similarity of Raj's and WD's responses. It is almost collective.


whats so interesting? I condone rape in every form and fashion. :P
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