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India tourist visits down 25%...

Postby x9200 » Mon, 01 Apr 2013 9:35 pm

...following fatal Delhi gang rape

Tourism industry survey contradicts rosy government picture, showing tourists are shunning India over sexual assault fears.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ma ... -gang-rape

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Re: India tourist visits down 25%...

Postby the lynx » Tue, 02 Apr 2013 9:01 am

x9200 wrote:...following fatal Delhi gang rape

Tourism industry survey contradicts rosy government picture, showing tourists are shunning India over sexual assault fears.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ma ... -gang-rape


And the Swiss cyclist's gang rape. And an attempted sexual assault on a Brit in a hotel by hotel manager, which forced her to jump off the balcony.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 02 Apr 2013 9:51 am

I think the rapes might have had less impact than how the authorities reacted. Especially in the case of the Swiss couple where the police happily and openly pushed the responsibility towards the victims. For the Delhi rape it could also be heard that these are the victims responsible for what happened (the line of defence of one or a few of the rapists).

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Postby the lynx » Tue, 02 Apr 2013 11:19 am

x9200 wrote:I think the rapes might have had less impact than how the authorities reacted. Especially in the case of the Swiss couple where the police happily and openly pushed the responsibility towards the victims. For the Delhi rape it could also be heard that these are the victims responsible for what happened (the line of defence of one or a few of the rapists).


I watched a documentary on how the recent rape cases in India have fuelled the feminist movement and the push for cultural change (where the women are mostly subjugated under current traditional laws). I think the public outcry has grown loud enough to pressure the government to do something, although the initial reaction from the authorities is still (and always) flaky, until the spotlight is too bright and too long on them to stay still. As long as the media is making decent coverage of these incidents, the mass will continue to be loud and persistent on them.

But I'm no advocate of stupidity. Who the hell backpacks and sets up tent at such place in India?!
Last edited by the lynx on Tue, 02 Apr 2013 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 02 Apr 2013 3:16 pm

x9200 wrote:I think the rapes might have had less impact than how the authorities reacted. Especially in the case of the Swiss couple where the police happily and openly pushed the responsibility towards the victims.


Ok, rape is never the woman's fault and I'm not just parroting that to be PC.

BUT! Being openly ignorant of your surroundings, doing something stupid, and then being the victim of a violent crime DOES put some of the blame at your feet.

In this case, a caucasian couple, on bicycles, camping out in the wilderness of a known lawless area of India. (Carrying f*cking LAPTOPS?!) The rape is inexcusable, but they were f*cking stupid. I wouldn't walk around Karachi with an American Flag tshirt and gold crucifix hanging out.

If they were just robbed and beaten, no one would feel the least bit of sympathy for them, and they would likely be openly ridiculed in the media. Like our hippy hikers from Berkeley a few years back who just happened to go hiking along the Iraqi/Iranian frontier.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 02 Apr 2013 5:12 pm

They may be guilty of ignorance and lack of common sense but not the rape. The huge problem with such statements is that it shifts responsibility and justifies somebodies wrongdoing. Was raped because her skirt was too short, or she smiled at him is exactly the same category.

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 7:51 am

x9200 wrote: Was raped because her skirt was too short, or she smiled at him is exactly the same category.


No, it's not the same category. I went out of my way to clarify that I'm not justifying the rape, and I didn't make excuses for the rape.

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Postby x9200 » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 9:47 am

You missed the point. Can you distinguish between being guilty of the rape and being guilty of ignorance making the rape more likely to happen? What they say, it is in the first part and this is what you said too. That's the whole problem. For you it is not an excuse, granted, but it is for the defendants and a part of the public. Getting to the initial point, if the authorities say something like this it is like saying, well, what did you expect? = it's normal that under these circumstances you got raped. Something like this should never be seen as normal.

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Postby the lynx » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 9:55 am

Nevertheless, rape is very wrong. No matter under what circumstances. Nobody asks to get raped. Stupidity may get one there, but still, nobody plans to get raped.

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 10:35 am

Rape is sad and disgusting,
New Delhi and the northern states like Bihar, UP and Haryana are particularly notorious for rape and eve teasing. The main problem is because of the skewed sex ratio 800 women to every 1000 men in these states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_sta ... _sex_ratio

The southern states witness less of such problems particularly because the level of education and awareness is higher.
Even then most tourists need to follow certain rules like not going to shady places alone or in two's, you are more likely to be safe if you are in a group.

Dressing is important too, e.g you can walk around in skirts in Goa/Kerala/Bangalore and it wouldn't be a problem, lets say you wore clothes like that in rural Bihar or Haryana or UP , God save you..
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Postby morenangpinay » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 12:52 pm

i dont think its the sex ratio. I think it is more of the culture of placing less importance on females in India even the perception of politicians and the opinions on the rape cases recently indicate this. ofcourse this is just an observation of mine.

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 1:46 pm

x9200 wrote:You missed the point. Can you distinguish between being guilty of the rape and being guilty of ignorance making the rape more likely to happen? What they say, it is in the first part and this is what you said too. That's the whole problem. For you it is not an excuse, granted, but it is for the defendants and a part of the public. Getting to the initial point, if the authorities say something like this it is like saying, well, what did you expect? = it's normal that under these circumstances you got raped. Something like this should never be seen as normal.


You brought up the Swiss example, so I countered it.

I will openly blame the Swiss couple for putting themselves into a potentially harmful situation. It does not justify the perpetrators' actions in any way, nor should there be any leniency granted due to the victim's ignorance. If they had been robbed and just roughed up, most people would easily agree with me. Rape crosses the line, as there is never any type of justifiable circumstance where rape could possibly be condoned. (As opposed to robbery to feed a starving family, or murder in self defense, etc).

That said, I will venture to say culture in that part of the world does not view rape as "always unjustifiable" as the West and most of the rest of the world does. It's horrendously wrong and evil IMO, but that's how it is there.

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 1:47 pm

morenangpinay wrote:i dont think its the sex ratio. I think it is more of the culture of placing less importance on females in India even the perception of politicians and the opinions on the rape cases recently indicate this. ofcourse this is just an observation of mine.


Regional tribal cultures justify some rapes even. Google "honor rapes".

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 2:04 pm

morenangpinay wrote:i dont think its the sex ratio. I think it is more of the culture of placing less importance on females in India even the perception of politicians and the opinions on the rape cases recently indicate this. ofcourse this is just an observation of mine.


I think "placing less importance on women" card is the same across Asia more or less and in varying degrees of oppression.
In certain villages in India particularly the ones with the skewed sex ratio men are unable to wed because of lack of available women.
Why is the population of women lesser than men? well thats another can of worms ( female infanticide )
All these alarming trends like I mentioned rapes, female infanticide, eve teasing, molestation cases seem to originate from states with low sex ratios attributable to female infanticide.
It's a f***ing mess!
Last edited by rajagainstthemachine on Wed, 03 Apr 2013 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby therat » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 2:06 pm

how about "Virgin women cannot be executed in Iran" hence the prison will arrange a "marriage" to and raped by prison guards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ACap ... nt_in_Iran

Look for
4 Forcible marriage and rape of virgin women on death row


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