Commission to Agent

Discuss about where to live, renting a property, tenancy issues, property trend and property investment in Singapore.
Post Reply
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9873
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Post by x9200 » Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:22 pm

JR8 wrote:
x9200 wrote:I think there can be one line of defense worth to consider. Firstly why the assumption that this money is for the agent for doing simply nothing, just for the pure fact of having the contract extended? What is the base of such assumption? It is rather important IMHO question especially in light of the establishment of CEA and emphasis on the ethics. I saw relevant clauses in the TAs and they are not really precise leaving a lot of space for interpretation.
And if this is similar to what I have seen before I would not pay unless the agent gets voluntary involved in the extension process. If (s)he remains passive just requesting the money I would take the risk.
The contract with the agent should outline what their continuing responsibilities are. These might be things like negotiation of an extension and appropriate re-setting of rent. Negotiation of any deductions from the deposit on checking-out, and so on.

You might say 'Ah, but none of that happened, so why should I pay?'. But isn't that a bit like booking a hotel room, and on checking out demanding a discount on the basis of not having used the swimming pool?

You might find this interesting:
Repeat and Renewal Letting Fees and Why Landlords Should Not Wait to Claim Unfair Charges Following OFT Ruling against Foxtons
http://www.lettingfocus.com/blogs/index ... t-foxtons/

The OFT is the UK Office of Fair Trading. Foxton's is a notoriously aggressive and buccaneering London property agent.

Quite a lot of SG law derives from UK law. So, if you can determine if SG has an equivalent of the OFT, perhaps you might ask them if they would consider bringing a test case. That said I rather doubt that they'll be motivated to bring a case on behalf of an FT versus a SGn landlord, so don't hold your breath!


p.s. find more on Google.co.uk with search-string 'letting agent court fees landlords'
All the cases like this I have seen so far had the relevant clause included to the TA. This is IMO important as it provides the more detailed context.
An example. I assisted in one case like this some years ago and besides the very clause in the TA was also an option for renewal. Among other things it was there that to make it valid it had to be executed not later than 3 months before the TA was expired. The agent woke up 1 month before the TA expiry and he got a short response that he failed to engaged in the due time and his services are not longer required. We never heard from him again.

The hotel room analogy partly holds although the engagement of resources (capacity booking) is hardly comparable. Also this is neither a custom nor due diligence of the hotel manager/staff to remind their clients about the booking. It is a different case I believe for the RE agent where he should ensure the rights of his clients (the tenants) are guarded.

Singapore Property Search

 

freeman.vu
Regular
Regular
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 7:18 pm
Contact:

Post by freeman.vu » Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:28 pm

Why not give a call again and tell the agent you are NOT interested in renting any more?
Last edited by freeman.vu on Thu, 28 Mar 2013 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16516
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:43 pm
Location: K. Puki Manis

Post by JR8 » Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:35 pm

taxico wrote:(foxton'll drive you around in their cars and do hand holding though...)
As did our agent in Singapore.

irene1268
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 3:21 am
Location: North

Tenancy Agreement which signed by Tenant Need to honour

Post by irene1268 » Thu, 28 Mar 2013 3:48 am

Housing Agent can file this agreement to Case for claim of commission if Tenant did not abide to the Tenancy Agreement.

If the housing Agent did not perform his duties the duration of your Tenancy Agreement then you can write to the Agent company to dismiss his duties as your acting housing agent.

All Document signed is consider official document which can be filed for claim at court.
IRENE LIM

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16516
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:43 pm
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: Tenancy Agreement which signed by Tenant Need to honour

Post by JR8 » Thu, 28 Mar 2013 4:57 am

irene1268 wrote:Housing Agent can file this agreement to Case for claim of commission if Tenant did not abide to the Tenancy Agreement.

If the housing Agent did not perform his duties the duration of your Tenancy Agreement then you can write to the Agent company to dismiss his duties as your acting housing agent.

All Document signed is consider official document which can be filed for claim at court.

Here we go....

Only stamped (i.e. Stamp Duty paid) TA's are admissible as evidence in court within proceedings.

But you're a realtor and so likely don't know this, nor care.

x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9873
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: Tenancy Agreement which signed by Tenant Need to honour

Post by x9200 » Thu, 28 Mar 2013 7:13 am

irene1268 wrote:Housing Agent can file this agreement to Case for claim of commission if Tenant did not abide to the Tenancy Agreement.

If the housing Agent did not perform his duties the duration of your Tenancy Agreement then you can write to the Agent company to dismiss his duties as your acting housing agent.

All Document signed is consider official document which can be filed for claim at court.
CASE is not a body to file a claim. CASE is also not a body to be used by agents (etc.) against consumers (it is the other way around).

Can one complain to the agents's company for violating one forum rules and spreading incorrect information?

You are being watched Irene. Please do not advertise including PMs.

Moderator

User avatar
Wd40
Director
Director
Posts: 4249
Joined: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:53 am
Location: SIndiapore

Post by Wd40 » Thu, 28 Mar 2013 8:07 am

X9200, I think agents can go to CASE for dispute settlement. I read it in . before an article that mentioned an agency(HSR or Propnex?) they go to CASE atleast 3 times a year. Basically anyone can go to CASE if the claim amount is less than 10K.

Google for this term "PropNex takes home buyers to court over fee dispute"

And JR8, having a civil dispute at CASE and even losing it, I dont think is an immigration offence, that will put you at risk of losing your EP.

Also the chances of going to a proper court for an amount of what, 1k in agent fee?, is virtually NIL.

So I maintain my stance that the worst case scenario for the OP is that he will just eventually have to pay the agent commision. Nothing More.

x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9873
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Post by x9200 » Thu, 28 Mar 2013 8:42 am

CASE by its nature (statutory mission) is for consumers and an agent is not a consumer. An agent can go to CASE if the consumer files a complaint over there against the agent. This is probably what they described as a settlement. Maybe, an agent can ask CASE to help to solve the dispute but I found extremely hard to believe it will help the agent in legal matters against the consumer and this is what Irene stated.
Besides, CASE has no power of any ruling, it only can help with formal legal matters and mediation. Both parties have to agree for the mediation process.
Complaints Checklist
Is your complaint under CASE’s purview? Go through the following checklist below.

Complaints CASE handles:

Consumer-to-business disputes
You are a consumer if you make a transaction for a product or service for personal usage.
Tourist-to-business disputes
If you are a tourist and have a dispute with a retailer or vendor[..]
http://www.case.org.sg/making_a_complaint.html

Consumer is someone who enters any legal agreement (typically sell/service type) where, simplifying, this someone in this agreement is just a private person and NOT a company, firm etc.

User avatar
nutnut
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1854
Joined: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:20 am
Location: The Mainland....

Post by nutnut » Thu, 28 Mar 2013 9:49 am

You say it's only a few months that you are renting?

I'd move and never use the agent again, sounds like a crook! also, be careful about signing a similar agreement in the future.

nutnut
nutnut

LongTimeHere
Member
Member
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 9:58 am

Post by LongTimeHere » Thu, 28 Mar 2013 10:52 am

: lokeshpashine

Why did you inform the agent? remember agent = scum, troublemaker, necessary evil, never to be trusted. Stop getting scared.

Ways out:

Are you married? in yes then did you sign the tenancy agreement alone or jointly with your wife. If you signed it alone then have the new contract between the landlord and your wife. The agents agreement is with you and that contact was not renewed.

simple, I have done this before with no issues.

In any case if the agent takes you to court, small claims tribunal then all he will get is the commission + $50 (travel). So at the most you loose only $50. typically agents don't have so much time.

Can you type words in the contract where it says you have to pay commission for renewal? let people in the forum take a look there are many helpful folks with a lot of experience.

Do an open contract so it becomes legally ambiguous. Most of all stop picking up his calls, lets see what he does. talk is cheap.

User avatar
Sergei82
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1455
Joined: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 9:52 pm

Post by Sergei82 » Thu, 28 Mar 2013 12:39 pm

Finally I understood what OP is talking about: his tenancy is coming to the end and he needs to renew it or move on, agent wants money.
So do not renew your old contract - it is your right, not obligation! Make another contract with landlord directly, bypassing any agents. I do not see any issue with that at all.

Do I understand correctly?

User avatar
Wd40
Director
Director
Posts: 4249
Joined: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:53 am
Location: SIndiapore

Post by Wd40 » Thu, 28 Mar 2013 12:42 pm

Sergei82 wrote:Finally I understood what OP is talking about: his tenancy is coming to the end and he needs to renew it or move on, agent wants money.
So do not renew your old contract - it is your right, not obligation! Make another contract with landlord directly, bypassing any agents. I do not see any issue with that at all.

Do I understand correctly?
The only issue is: he already signed on a piece of paper that if he decides to renew the contract then he will engage the same agent and pay the agent fee.

User avatar
Sergei82
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1455
Joined: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 9:52 pm

Post by Sergei82 » Thu, 28 Mar 2013 1:13 pm

Wd40 wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:Finally I understood what OP is talking about: his tenancy is coming to the end and he needs to renew it or move on, agent wants money.
So do not renew your old contract - it is your right, not obligation! Make another contract with landlord directly, bypassing any agents. I do not see any issue with that at all.

Do I understand correctly?
The only issue is: he already signed on a piece of paper that if he decides to renew the contract then he will engage the same agent and pay the agent fee.
He doesn't have to renew that contract, just sign another one. Same landlord and flat - those are details. I do not see anything in that cintract restricting both OP and landlord from not using the agent's services by creating a brand new contract. Will that be considered as renewal of the old contract???

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 39564
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 1:26 pm
Answers: 10
Location: Retired on the Little Red Dot

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 28 Mar 2013 1:21 pm

In the eyes of the law? It will look like you are trying to shaft the agent, which is exactly what it looks like. I think you would lose in court.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

User avatar
Sergei82
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1455
Joined: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 9:52 pm

Post by Sergei82 » Thu, 28 Mar 2013 1:28 pm

I still do not understand why. I used an agent to get my current tenancy agreement. I did not sign up to not having to deal with the landlord directly ever in my life. We (me+landlord) both can scrap our real estate agents after the contract is over - we're done with our contractual obligations. Is it illegal? After that we're free to do whatever we want. Isn't it?

Or you want to say that an agent is a leech that sucks me and landlord for the lifetime???

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Property Talk, Housing & Rental”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest