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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Mon, 11 Mar 2013 1:45 am

Rising property prices are a form of soma for the people.


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'To maintain the World State's Command Economy for the indefinite future, all citizens are conditioned from birth to value consumption with such platitudes as "ending is better than mending," "more stiches less riches" i.e., buy a new item instead of fixing the old one, because constant consumption, and near-universal employment to meet society's material demands, is the bedrock of economic and social stability for the World State.

Beyond providing social engagement and distraction in the material realm of work or play, the need for transcendence, solitude and spiritual communion is addressed with the ubiquitous availability and universally endorsed consumption of the drug soma. Soma is an allusion to a ritualistic drink of the same name consumed by ancient Indo-Aryans.

In the book, soma is a hallucinogen that takes users on enjoyable, hangover-free "holidays". It was developed by the World State to provide these inner-directed personal experiences within a socially managed context of State-run 'religious' organizations; social clubs. The hypnopaedically inculcated affinity for the State-produced drug, as a self-medicating comfort mechanism in the face of stress or discomfort, thereby eliminates the need for religion or other personal allegiances outside or beyond the World State.

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Brave New World - Aldous Huxley (1931)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 11 Mar 2013 9:33 am

Mi Amigo wrote:From many of the remarks I've seen, we're all labelled 'foreign trash', PR or no PR. In the xenophobic hysteria that's being whipped up, we're all considered fair game for abuse it seems. Sadly, subtle nuances and reasoned debate appear to be beyond the capabilities of a great many people here.


I've also seen naturalized citizens lumped into this. (See various blog posts/comments where they want special benefits only for "true blue"/born locally Singaporeans). I still wonder though how common this extreme attitude is and how much it's just a small minority who post 10x as much as anyone else.

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Postby Barnsley » Mon, 11 Mar 2013 10:12 am

I am wondering too!

I guess its similar to all countries that have "immigration issues" the folks who tend to be anti-immigration tend to be the loudest.

The Govt does have some work to do though not to quell the voices, but to explain why the policy is what it is as quite clearly the message isnt getting across.

Its gonna be an interesting couple of years.
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Postby movingtospore » Mon, 11 Mar 2013 8:58 pm

Or at least to remind some of their more extreme elements that their only claim to fame is that they picked up from the shambles left over after WWII and did a reasonably good job of cleaning things up; better still after they split from Malaysia. With a LOT of outside help along the way. Or, reminding them that the only people who might have a truly indigenous claim to SP would be javanese or something...not chinese imports who've really only been here a couple hundred years.

:P

They are as bad as the worst of the redneck hicks in my home country - except there hate laws reign people in a bit. That and the fact that reasonable people will tell them to shut the F&*k up.

Seriously though, the government seems to be in full one panic mode, careening from one extreme to the other depending on the day. Maybe there's a method to the madness but it sure doesn't seem that way.

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Postby Mi Amigo » Mon, 11 Mar 2013 9:35 pm

movingtospore wrote:Seriously though, the government seems to be in full one panic mode, careening from one extreme to the other depending on the day. Maybe there's a method to the madness but it sure doesn't seem that way.

Yes, it seems hard to draw any other conclusion, doesn't it?
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Postby ariyo » Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:50 pm

Hello people..newly registered forumer here.

Having been lurking in this forum for 2 years now and as a local here, I can't help but notice the increase in xenophobic vitriol in the local forums as well as the snark comments here.

It seems that there is a great mismatch in the perception of locals by foreigners and vice versa contributing to the distrust and I would like to help clarify the differences. Hopefully this would at least contribute to the understanding between different parties, even if our views do not align.

For a start: Yes, the racial quota is a knee jerk reaction by the government. Yes, housing and leasing would be more problematic for foreigners. Going forward, there would probably be more of such actions by the government, at least until the next election.

However, these actions are by no means madness. The current incumbent ruling party is ultimately beholden to their voters and the recent series of events have shown that their hold on power has been increasingly fragile.

Does that mean then that they are sacrificing Singapore's future for their own short term gain? Fortunately, no. In the first place, Singapore already has a history of breaking up racial enclaves to promote cohesion and it was only until recently that the massive influx of foreigners resulted in racial enclaves. Given enough time, racial enclaves will lead to Singapore splitting along, social, racial and religious lines- something a small country can ill afford to do so.

In Singaporean’s views, this ruling should have been implemented earlier but was only triggered by the citizens’ dissatisfactions.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 12 Mar 2013 2:11 pm

Do you actually believe the crap you are spewing? Racial Enclaves? What do you think? Singapore is nothing one big racial enclave consisting of Chinese in a native Malay country. That's why Singapore was thrown to the wolves by Malaysia. With 78% of the population it's a racial enclave that encompasses the entire island. By spreading out the minorities, that just leaves the Chinese with the largest enclave and the rest with nothing. Who are you trying to kid. I bet you really believe that crap. And with your current xenophobic madness, you have doomed what was a nice Little Red Dot into something that will die of self-inflicted wounds by it's own venom. Every thing the PAP as done since LKY stepped aside has been knee-jerk with little thought to the total consequences. The current debacle is no different with the big exception being that this time it's signing the country's death warrant. You should go back to being a lurker if this is the only thing you can contribute. You seem to know very little of the actual reality of what is happening under your very nose. :roll:

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Postby QRM » Tue, 12 Mar 2013 2:35 pm

and on that note ariyo welcome to the expat forum.... :lol:

Interesting talking about racial enclaves I just came back from Tanglin Mall, I felt like I was walking through a western suburban mall, will big brother think it is becoming a caucasian/others enclave?
Last edited by QRM on Tue, 12 Mar 2013 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ariyo » Tue, 12 Mar 2013 2:40 pm

Well SMS you have your opinions and you don't have to agree with mine. It is perfectly fine, but even amongst the Chinese, their origins have been of mixed nature. Many chinese here in Singapore trace their origins back to different provinces in China and speak different dialects. On the contrary to popular expatriate beliefs, we have been getting along quite well due to forced integration; somewhat like what has been going on now. LKY's knee jerk reactions seem to have gotten us thus far too, the wolves must have died from starvation already right? :)

On your accusations however, I am no xenophobe or racist( to some degree, very few people are purely non racist.) Have studied for years in different countries, I can understand what you are going through to some extent. There will always be nationalists and some discrimination but I believe it is how we carry ourselves that ultimately reflect on others' perceptions on us.

This is a new and small country and the people want to have a say in the affairs of the state. Most citizens here would prefer committed individuals who can contribute positively, somewhat like welcoming a new family member or a teammate. There are actually a large number of moderates here who within 1 or 2 generations ago come from totally different countries and cultures to settle down here. It is the negative mercenaries who portray an arrogant attitude that are not welcome.

P.s I am actually not a troll or a flamer. I am happy to contribute but it is hard to differentiate rudeness from bluntness online

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Postby ariyo » Tue, 12 Mar 2013 2:42 pm

Thanks QRM!

Big brother actively promotes a laissez faire allocation/ deployment of resources unless it affects their political power and monetary income, similar to the really big brother on the main continent up North

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 12 Mar 2013 4:07 pm

ariyo wrote:This is a new and small country and the people want to have a say in the affairs of the state. Most citizens here would prefer committed individuals who can contribute positively, somewhat like welcoming a new family member or a teammate. There are actually a large number of moderates here who within 1 or 2 generations ago come from totally different countries and cultures to settle down here. It is the negative mercenaries who portray an arrogant attitude that are not welcome.

P.s I am actually not a troll or a flamer. I am happy to contribute but it is hard to differentiate rudeness from bluntness online

Welcome to the forum also from me after somehow harsh encounter with SMS :)
What you pointed to above is a negligible fraction of foreigners. If you only hated them everybody would probably understand or even approve. The problem is likely large, noisy fraction that blame the foreigners virtually for anything deserved or not, and most of the time not. They don't understand the Singapore needs foreigners and that scaring them away would probably make already visible and negative for your economy impact within the coming decade. At the end of the day these are "they" and other of your countrymen who will suffer.

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Postby ariyo » Tue, 12 Mar 2013 4:32 pm

x9200, what you said is entirely true and a lot of singaporeans are concerned over that. It seems every xenophobe and racist is crawling out of the woodwork since the 2011 elections.

Why then you would ask, is nobody really stopping these monkeys from making those noises?

The main explanation is that Singaporeans are very very angry indeed. A lot of them have been displaced or relegated in their home country with less escape alternatives than you and me or other less fortunate folks. Unfortunately, their feedbacks have been disregarded by the PAP for more than a decade and the hatred of the current system have poisoned them to such an extent that borders on arnachical. For people with backs against the walls for such a long time, the future and "other" countrymen are very far and distant entities.

Many Singaporeans, however moderate, also tolerate such extremism because it furthers their cause. There hasnt been any positive changes for the citizens until the extremists came along to push things. As Deng XiaoPing once said, it doesn’t matter whether it is a black cat or a white cat, as long as it catches the rat, it is a good cat. We are a very practical society and recognize that even monkeys have their uses. It is regrettable that the foreigners are caught in the tussle as collateral damage but rest assured that things will significantly improve for the foreigners in the future when the government finally realizes the citizen welfare, not xenophobia is the root cause.

The current strife is caused by more than a decade of mismanagement and under-building of infrastructure that lead to overcrowding and competition for resources. You can see PAP already reactively solving these problems and when the backlog is settled in a few more years, such unsavory sentiments would naturally disperse.

On a side note, I have witness a few recessions in Singapore in the last few year in 2008, 2001 and 1997. Each time there would be foreigners threatening doom and hellfire before promptly leaving en mass. property prices would collapse 30-40% and everyone would write Singapore off. The clever ones who remain here would make a killing and new talents will flow in to replace the ones who left in a seemingly predictable cycle. The same goes for Hong Kong or South Korea.

I leave it to your conjecture on how things would turn out in the very near future ïÂ

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 12 Mar 2013 4:51 pm

ariyo wrote:Well SMS you have your opinions and you don't have to agree with mine. It is perfectly fine, but even amongst the Chinese, their origins have been of mixed nature. Many chinese here in Singapore trace their origins back to different provinces in China and speak different dialects. On the contrary to popular expatriate beliefs, we have been getting along quite well due to forced integration; somewhat like what has been going on now. LKY's knee jerk reactions seem to have gotten us thus far too, the wolves must have died from starvation already right? :)

I didn't say LKY used knee jerk reactions. Go back and read carefully.

On your accusations however, I am no xenophobe or racist( to some degree, very few people are purely non racist.) Have studied for years in different countries, I can understand what you are going through to some extent. There will always be nationalists and some discrimination but I believe it is how we carry ourselves that ultimately reflect on others' perceptions on us.

The way a large sampling are carrying themselves have not been giving Singapore a very good name at all in the past couple of years and it is getting progressively worse. Other countries' perceptions are rapidly going downhill.

This is a new and small country and the people want to have a say in the affairs of the state. Most citizens here would prefer committed individuals who can contribute positively, somewhat like welcoming a new family member or a teammate. There are actually a large number of moderates here who within 1 or 2 generations ago come from totally different countries and cultures to settle down here. It is the negative mercenaries who portray an arrogant attitude that are not welcome.

Unfortunately, who are the negative mercenaries? The Singaporeans holding out for higher and higher COVs because they know new PR have to have a place to live and it's either pay astronomical rents, over-inflated condo prices or finally pay the rediculous prices being asked by Singaporeans for resale flats. Mercenary? More like being held hostage, if you look at it with an open point of view. Nobody forces a Singaporean to sell their flat to a foreigner. They could easily sell to another Singaporean.

P.s I am actually not a troll or a flamer. I am happy to contribute but it is hard to differentiate rudeness from bluntness online


Blunt I am. I say it exactly the way I see it. Try riding on the trains as a foreigner just for starters. They are the minorities, granted, but it only takes a minority of the population (like at the speakers corner a couple weeks ago) to create a major ruckus. Unfortunately, because of the sheeple like tendencies of the majority of citizens here, you will end up with mob behaviour similar to what happens when you put up a "Free Hello Kitty" sign. I've seen considerable changes in the past 3 decades that I've been here. I don't like what I see today. Singaporeans are shooting themselves in the foot because they cannot somehow see the forest for the trees.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 12 Mar 2013 5:07 pm

ariyo,

It's not you that I'm railing at. I seen even more as I started with the 1984 recession. While there were flights of foreigners out and doomsayers for all that you mention, there is a big difference this time. Singaporean are shooting each other as well. Now, the 40%, which is growing all the time, has taken three constituencies, and is becoming a juggernaut of sorts. The PAP keeps on doing the same thing and losing more because of it. While recessions have come and gone, it's not a recession that's causing the problem this time. It's an electorate that has been influenced by the MSM & Social media. So much so that now they are down to further divisions between citizens (not racism) but "true blue" or not. This is a new phenomena and there is nothing to measure it by. Singapore has weathered out 5 recessions in the 30+ years I've been here. This isn't a recession at all as Singaporean have full employment (and don't give me the PMET crap - they want the positions but most lack the wherewithal to do the job in the first place - you cannot have all chief and no braves). I've invested half of my adult life here. I don't want to see a bunch of screwballs screw up the country for the rest. So, if I've ruffled your feathers, I'm sorry, but I've got as much invested here as you do, and I cannot leave either (at least at the moment).

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Postby ariyo » Tue, 12 Mar 2013 5:08 pm

I didn't say LKY used knee jerk reactions. Go back and read carefully

-My bad, lets replace LKY with PAP in this context and we have come to the same conclusion. I still associate PAP as LKY. Old habits die hard.

The way a large sampling are carrying themselves have not been giving Singapore a very good name at all in the past couple of years and it is getting progressively worse. Other countries' perceptions are rapidly going downhill.

-Lets be honest, this works both ways. We can actually do better by setting good examples.

Unfortunately, who are the negative mercenaries?...

-Being in a related industry where I have seen plenty of ultra high networth individuals come in to set record prices. I can safely say that money and greedy triumphs over patriotism or good ole' common sense. The two gigantic washing machines we have here also help to set record high asset prices, if you know what i mean ;)

As I have typed just now and will reiterate again, there are no trees for the desperate and hopeless, let alone a forest. Building a country on the backs of those who have sacrificed yet giving them nothing is a recipe for disaster. Perhaps you could feedback to the RC for an equitable solution to this conundrum?


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