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Moving from Investment Banking IT to Operations?

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freeman.vu
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Postby freeman.vu » Sat, 09 Mar 2013 11:00 am

I think junior positions in banks (fresh graduate, mid-entry etc.) will start with something + 'analyst'

JR8 wrote:
Thanks for that. That job-spec struck me as being a typical 'Operations Clerk'. I don't see much that's 'analyst' about the role.


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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Sat, 09 Mar 2013 12:03 pm

Wd40 wrote:Thanks. Finished the interview. The interviewer was going crazy and trying to find out what is the reason I want to join back office operations and leaving IT job :lol:

She explained that the role is totally world apart from what I have been doing and that although its not rocket science and can be learnt, she mentioned how fast pace it is and comparison of trade data and reconciliation etc.

While speaking with her, I had more or less made up my mind not to take up the opportunity even if I am selected, which is unlikely, given that even after the interview she would be nodding her head in disbelief that I really want to get that job :lol:


i think its a wise decision that you made in the end.
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Sat, 09 Mar 2013 8:10 pm

freeman.vu wrote:I think junior positions in banks (fresh graduate, mid-entry etc.) will start with something + 'analyst'


Operations and graduates? I can't say I've ever met anyone who works in Ops who is a graduate (except one guy who was head of Ops for my ex-bank in Europe).

Ops requires 'street-smarts', hard work, tenacity, a drive. The last thing it needs is some up-himself fresh grad who believes the world now owes him an easy job and a good living.

Just my 2c and experience.

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Postby freeman.vu » Sat, 09 Mar 2013 9:18 pm

JR8 wrote:Operations and graduates? I can't say I've ever met anyone who works in Ops who is a graduate (except one guy who was head of Ops for my ex-bank in Europe).

Ops requires 'street-smarts', hard work, tenacity, a drive. The last thing it needs is some up-himself fresh grad who believes the world now owes him an easy job and a good living.

Just my 2c and experience.


Sure you have much more experiences here to, but afaik some of my peers were selected for graduation program at SCB, one of them I know got into Operation division. The program comprises of few rotations from trade operations to securities services. So right out of colleges, graduates can work in a capacity of 'operation analyst', but perhaps there are different levels of analyst here which I don't know.
Also, I somehow understand your definition of Ops like those who communicate directly with traders, point out why their positions are that much, where in the reports their risk exposure go wrong and etc. am I right? If that, I think we are talking about one title but under different divisions here.

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 09 Mar 2013 11:33 pm

freeman.vu wrote:Sure you have much more experiences here to, but afaik some of my peers were selected for graduation program at SCB, one of them I know got into Operation division. The program comprises of few rotations from trade operations to securities services. So right out of colleges, graduates can work in a capacity of 'operation analyst', but perhaps there are different levels of analyst here which I don't know.
Also, I somehow understand your definition of Ops like those who communicate directly with traders, point out why their positions are that much, where in the reports their risk exposure go wrong and etc. am I right? If that, I think we are talking about one title but under different divisions here.


Grad programmes like you describe seem to rotate new hires, to give them a bit of background knowledge of multiple areas. It gives the new hires useful background, and allows them and the employer to decide on a 'best fit' role.

I accept that these days a much higher proportion of people go to university, than back in my day. It is also much easier to qualify for a degree than it used to. Ironic that so many people feel obliged to go to uni, to waste three years of their lives, to end up working in (usually) a totally unrelated field. I find it rather akin to a collective social madness.

So yes, it wouldn't surprise me if Ops in SG hire graduates these days.

I still think the job-title rather misleading though. You have analyst's in banks, but their job is to analyse stuff (stocks, credit ratings etc.). In Ops they primarily clear/settle trades.


'Also, I somehow understand your definition of Ops ...
- communicate directly with traders
[My comments in blue] Yes there would be comms with traders. Especially if trades fail to settle, or a trade error has occurred.

- point out why their positions are that much.
Nope. It is the role of the Finance dept (aka 'Product Control') to report a traders positions (done each day together with their P+L, and risk, and so on).

- where in the reports their risk exposure go wrong and etc
Nobody but the Head of Trading gets to tell a trader he's done something wrong. A lot of traders have egos the size of a bus, it goes with the mentality required to be a good trader. You calculate and report their risk profile (in the Finance Dept, not Ops) and you give it to the trader, without opinion or advice. Their salary and bonus (in some ways 'their life') is derived from your daily calculations, so the single most important thing of value you can offer, is to be meticulously accurate and careful with their P+L figures. Have a reputation for diligence and accuracy, and you'll get on great with 'your guys'. Be sloppy, and you're going to go through hell, being asked to prove long-hand security-by-security, every morning, how you derived your calculation.


- am I right? If that, I think we are talking about one title but under different divisions here.

I think there is some confusion and you're describing some form of hybrid between Ops and Finance. Do note of course that different companies operate in different ways, bit IME, and in general:

- Ops focus on settling trades, borrow stock to cover short positions, and so on.

- Finance focuses on daily (and periodic) P+L, regulatory reporting, risk reporting, production of management and statutory accounts.

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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 10 Mar 2013 1:55 am

I guess the "Analyst" part comes into picture when say the guys are "analysing" the cause of trade breaks etc ?

These days with so much of computerization and automation in back office processing, I guess the only place where humans come into the picture are where issues crop up or some sort of "analysis" is required to do the work.

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 10 Mar 2013 2:29 am

Yes, that is quite possible I suppose.

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Postby freeman.vu » Sun, 10 Mar 2013 9:39 am

Yup, you are right, thanks JR8.
I don't have a clear separation between Finance and Ops as in my former company, it is a small fund. My team (handful of dev and quants) cover pretty much all back to middle office work, from researches to operations (reconciliation and reporting) so I don't even know how that's structured in a bank.

JR8 wrote:I think there is some confusion and you're describing some form of hybrid between Ops and Finance. Do note of course that different companies operate in different ways, bit IME, and in general:

- Ops focus on settling trades, borrow stock to cover short positions, and so on.

- Finance focuses on daily (and periodic) P+L, regulatory reporting, risk reporting, production of management and statutory accounts.


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