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Discrimination at work, common?

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dpot
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Discrimination at work, common?

Postby dpot » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:57 am

Just walked away from a pretty lucrative contract offer...after 2 yrs of being with the org, and having asked on a number of occasions for child care leave like my sg counterparts, I was granted an offer in the new contract of 3 days, rather than the. 6 given to Singaporeans. Better, but slightly baffling...and the boss seemed not to understand why I felt this was prejudicial treatment. Growing up in the west, I learned that all people, regardless of race, religion, gender, nationality, etc, are equal. When the boss took offense in my use of the term 'prejudice', arguing that they are not this way (trying to guilt trip me)...I said, fine, so if there is equality, why am I only being offered 1/2 the days of a local? The response :o
I really liked the people there, and the boss was a good guy, but they really don't understand where I am coming from...said that the govt gives these days to Singaporeans and pr's, I then mentioned that my wife works for nus, is a no -Singaporean, and gets the days, as do all of our friends. Again, :o
Is this typical? I gave them 2 years to get it right, but nobody seems to see inequality based on nation of origin as a problem.

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Postby iamsen » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 1:32 am

'I'm not a racist because I have Malay/Indian/Pinoy/whatever friends'.

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 6:18 am

Legally...

SG citizens > PR > foreigners

in terms of benefits. If companies can find ways of saving on employee benefits and see no legal impediment, they will.

You really expected equality in Singapore?

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 7:33 am

Yes, it's typical. I have the same in mine org but I understand that this has nothing to do with any form of discrimination but rather extended benefits for SC and PRs. SCs got most of such benefits, PRs only some. This is a way our org encourages people to get PR and later convert to SC. If your wife gets similar benefits as the locals, good for your wife and nice of her employer but this is more less all about.

PS. Is your org government founded and consisting of a number of institutes where predominant colors of the logos is blue with some elements in red and white? :)

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Postby Wd40 » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 8:40 am

This doesnt happen in banks. I get the same benefits that SCs and PRs get, infact I also get CPF, even though I am an EP holder, but the CPF gets credited in unit trusts managed by HSBC Hong Kong. I can only withdraw them when I leave the company. In fact I feel I am better off than a PR or Citizen because I get the funds as soon as I leave my company instead of waiting until I cancel PR or become 60s old.

There is a reason why expats shun local companies.

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Postby bro75 » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 9:17 am

For locals, 3 days of child care leave is paid for by the government (with some limit), so giving you the same amount of child care leave days as locals will result in more costs to your company. It is not discrimination but just a business reaction to government policy.

http://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practi ... leave.aspx

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Postby therat » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 9:48 am

The first 3 day of child care leave is by law. Company need to provide to all employee, at their own operating cost.
The second 3 days of child care leave is PAID by the government for all Singaporean born children.

I don't think this is discrimination.

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 9:49 am

Agreed with everyone else. Many large companies and MNCs will match the benefits for all employees, but the Singapore government is only reimbursing the costs for SCs.

One of the two MNCs I've worked at in Singapore also gave me CPF contribution like WD40 mentioned, but mine was directly on my paycheck.

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Postby therat » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:06 am

Wd40 wrote:There is a reason why expats shun local companies.


I don't think this statement is true.
I'm working at an American MNC which is more than 100 years old and employs about 22,000 individuals globally.

It give 3 days childcare leave for non-Singaporen born child.

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Postby ecureilx » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:23 am

therat wrote:
Wd40 wrote:There is a reason why expats shun local companies.


I don't think this statement is true.
I'm working at an American MNC which is more than 100 years old and employs about 22,000 individuals globally.

It give 3 days childcare leave for non-Singaporen born child.


wd40 meant the opposite, that locals dont' want to work for local companies !!!

In my experience, even large companies, if the foreigners are minority, they get the same benefits as locals, like Child care leave and paternity leave.. if the foreigners make up a fair number, the cost facts starts to eat in ..

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Postby iamsen » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:52 am

therat wrote:I don't think this is discrimination.


dis·crim·i·na·tion
2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

Yes it is.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 12:44 pm

According to this definition me (male) not allowed to go to the female toilet is a discrimination. Fortunately I don't feel this way.
Or you can handle this the other way around and ask yourself what are the individual merits and if by any chance, they are absolutely unique (not really) or are just another category (yes, they are) making this definition logically invalid.

A proper definition of discrimination should include some fairness factor IMHO.

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Postby Wd40 » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 1:24 pm

The descrimination works both ways:

1)Some companies locals have good benefits and foreigners dont get those benefits.

2)Some companies foreigners(or rather expats) have good benefits and locals dont get those benefits

I know an Indian professor at Ngee Ann Poly who is working there from more than 10 years but refuses to apply for PR. His reasoning is that the moment he gets PR, his will lose lots of benefits like subsidised staff quarters(I have been there, its like a condo but the rent is only 700$) and gratuity etc.
Last edited by Wd40 on Tue, 26 Feb 2013 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby therat » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 1:34 pm

ecureilx wrote:
therat wrote:
Wd40 wrote:There is a reason why expats shun local companies.


I don't think this statement is true.
I'm working at an American MNC which is more than 100 years old and employs about 22,000 individuals globally.

It give 3 days childcare leave for non-Singaporen born child.


wd40 meant the opposite, that locals dont' want to work for local companies !!!

In my experience, even large companies, if the foreigners are minority, they get the same benefits as locals, like Child care leave and paternity leave.. if the foreigners make up a fair number, the cost facts starts to eat in ..


Hi ecureilx,
Thanks for pointing out, I think I misread or mis-understand wd40 statement.

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Postby curiousgeorge » Tue, 26 Feb 2013 3:26 pm

Out of interest, how did your "pretty lucrative contract" compare in terms of salary and other benefits compared to the SCs in your company? Is there anything in that contract that locals might find is not representative of "equality", like the salary for example?

It's not prejudice based on your country of origin, its a different set of contract terms based on your non-citizen status.

But anyway, you walked over 3 days of child care leave, from a lucrative contract where you like the people and the boss was a good guy? Sounds like it was a good job that many would give their first born for. Child care days you could have taken as annual leave or unpaid leave anyway...sounds like you are mad to walk away from it on such paltry grounds.

Changi airport is that way ---------->


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