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Landlord wants to sell half-way through contract

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anca
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Landlord wants to sell half-way through contract

Postby anca » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 12:34 pm

Hi, We have a lease contract for our current appartement until December 2013, however we received today a call from the agent saying that the owner would want to sell and asks us to either buy or leave in 3 months!
Is this legal? There's nothing mentionned in the contract about this.

We've made a lot of investements in this house, even bought air-con, renovated/ painted, so don't want to leave.

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 2:37 pm

Legally they cannot ask you to leave, unless it is mentioned in your contract that the lease can be broken.

So read your contract again.

In case the contract doesnt allow to break lease, then legally you are fine.

But then the question is how keen are you to fight it out. If the landlord is meek and just posing to scare you then its ok.

But I have heard cases where it has gotten very ugly. One of my colleague refused to leave the house. There was a big argument and then the landlord punched some blows to my colleague and then it became a police case. For the sake of peace of mind finally my colleague just moved out.

Its your call what you want to do.

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Postby anca » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:07 pm

I read the contract 10+ times in the last 4 hours since I got this phone call, it doesn't stipulate anything about this. But it doesn't stipulate the contrary either.

I am just afraid that there might be a law in Singapore that would allow this, the agent seemed very sure.

I read on this forum about people who's landlord has changed during the lease, but what if the new owner refuses to rent? Also, as I am living in an HDB flat, what if he sells back to HDB?

As far as physical force is concerned, I am not worried. My landlord is a 60+ years old that I only saw once upon signing the contract (rest of the time, I spoke with the agent 3 limes on the phone - including today's call that we have to move)

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:22 pm

Ok. Since it is a HDB, which requires a minimum occupation period for 5 years by the new owner, there is no way you can continue renting the house, after the sale has taken place.

If nothing is mentioned about breaking lease in the contract, then dont worry, legally they cannot force you to vacate.

If you not afraid of any physical or mental torture, I would advise, just tell the landlord that you not moving out and you will stay till the end of the tenancy period.

May be if they really badly want to sell, then may be you both can agree on a compensation amount the landlord has to pay you for all the losses and hardship caused.

Is this agent representing you or the landlord? Did he take commission from you? If he took commission from you then he should safeguard your interests and not the landlords interests.

Threaten the agent that you are going to lodge a complaint with the agent's agency as well as the CEA(Council of Estate Agents)

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Postby therat » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:28 pm

There is a different between private property and HDB.

Private property can sell with tenancy but HDB cannot.

Yes, you need to move out if the HDB is sold.
Your TA will be void.

Under HDB rule, new owner cannot rent out their HDB within 5 years. Hence the new owner cannot rent the HDB back to you. This is illegal.
HDB can took back the HDB unit.
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10323p.nsf ... enDocument

Enforcement Action By HDB

HDB carries out targeted investigations on suspected cases of unauthorised subletting. If the infringement of unauthorised subletting is established, action will be taken against the flat owners concerned. In 2012, HDB took action against 33 flat owners who committed the infringement. The action includes imposition of a penalty and repossession of flats.


You need to settle this with your present landlord.

Basically, if the HDB unit is really sold, you don't have any choice other than move out.

Once the second appointment is completed, the buyer will be the new owner of the HDB unit. If by then, you still stay in the HDB unit, the new owner has the right to call police to "invite" you to move out.
Because you are illegal occupy his/her property.

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:32 pm

Therat, you are speaking just like a local.

The part that "You cannot sell a HDB if a tenant exists in the house" is true.
But the part "You need to vacate the HDB, if a the owner wants to sell the house" is bullshit.

The quote you have posted is completely out of context. He is not illegally staying in the house. The house is approved for renting and there is rental agreement.

If what you say is true then what are contracts for and what is the need to register the tenancy agreement with HDB?

Do you have any proof that a owner can terminate a contract if he wants to sell the house? If you have the proof show me, or else its just bullshit to me
Last edited by Wd40 on Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby anca » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:34 pm

therat wrote:
You need to settle this with your present landlord.

Basically, if the HDB unit is really sold, you don't have any choice other than move out.


When you say settle this with my current landlord what do you mean? Beg him to not sell or...?

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Postby therat » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:35 pm

Wd40 wrote:Is this agent representing you or the landlord? Did he take commission from you? If he took commission from you then he should safeguard your interests and not the landlords interests.

Threaten the agent that you are going to lodge a complaint with the agent's agency as well as the CEA(Council of Estate Agents)


I think in this case, the stand is very weak.
Agent cannot stop the owner for selling his own property (HDB).
If the owner insist to sell his property, what you expect the agent to do?
Threaten the owner?

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:39 pm

therat wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Is this agent representing you or the landlord? Did he take commission from you? If he took commission from you then he should safeguard your interests and not the landlords interests.

Threaten the agent that you are going to lodge a complaint with the agent's agency as well as the CEA(Council of Estate Agents)


I think in this case, the stand is very weak.
Agent cannot stop the owner for selling his own property (HDB).
If the owner insist to sell his property, what you expect the agent to do?
Threaten the owner?


As you and I know nothing is "own" in Singapore :lol:
It all belongs to the gahmen.

Secondly, granted that the HDB flat is leased out by HDB to the owner for 99 years or shorter period and now the owner has leased it out to the tenant for 1 year and there is contract in place which is registered with the HDB(OP please confirm if the tenancy agreement is registered with HDB)

So the owner has no right to sell the HDB, before the contract is over.

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Postby anca » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:41 pm

I am not going to threaten the agent nor the landlord, no worries, they both have been nice to me and give me peace and personal space.

But I am asking for advice on what to do, if there's any legal way to push back and stay till December or should I start looking for a new place. Cos I think he is pretty convinced on selling

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:42 pm

anca wrote:I am not going to threaten the agent nor the landlord, no worries, they both have been nice to me and give me peace and personal space.

But I am asking for advice on what to do, if there's any legal way to push back and stay till December or should I start looking for a new place. Cos I think he is pretty convinced on selling


Thats your choice. I have already told what I had to tell. Good luck!

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Postby anca » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:43 pm

Wd40 wrote:
therat wrote:
Wd40 wrote:

Secondly, granted that the HDB flat is leased out by HDB to the owner for 99 years or shorter period and now the owner has leased it out to the tenant for 1 year and there is contract in place which is registered with the HDB(OP please confirm if the tenancy agreement is registered with HDB)

So the owner has no right to sell the HDB, before the contract is over.


I don't know hat registered with HDB means, I have a "certificate of stamp duty" - is that it? It is a 2 years contract Dec 2011 - Dec 2013

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Postby therat » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:45 pm

Wd40 wrote:The quote you have posted is completely out of context. He is not illegally staying in the house. The house is approved for renting and there is rental agreement.

If what you say is true then what are contracts for and what is the need to register the tenancy agreement with HDB?

TS never mention the house is approved for renting.
Rental agreement is within him and the landlord NOT HDB.


Do you have any proof that a owner can terminate a contract if he wants to sell the house? If you have the proof show me, or else its just bullshit to me

Wait, I just drop an email to HDB. Let wait for their reply.

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:45 pm

anca wrote:
I don't know hat registered with HDB means, I have a "certificate of stamp duty" - is that it? It is a 2 years contract Dec 2011 - Dec 2013


Yes, thats it! That and your tenancy agreement, keep them safe, legally nobody can force you to move until your contract ends.
Last edited by Wd40 on Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby anca » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:46 pm

Wd40 wrote:Yes, thats it! That and your tenancy agreement, keep them safe, legally nobody can force you to move until your contract ends.


Great, thanks Wd!


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