Singapore Expats Forum

NS

A moderated forum for serious discussions only.
iamsen
Regular
Regular
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun, 03 Feb 2013

Postby iamsen » Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:31 pm

You're not allowed to keep it past age 21, that's why they resort to the above trickery.

User avatar
Wd40
Director
Director
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue, 04 Dec 2012
Location: SIndiapore

Postby Wd40 » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 12:28 am

iamsen wrote:So you mean he gets arrested when he steps into the embassy?


If these people already have non-SG passports, and they travel using them, who or what's to stop them?

Honest question, a lot of dual citizen Japanese, when travelling outside Japan, use their non JP passports, and their JP passports when travelling into/out of Japan.

Are the circumstances any different?


Ok, lets say you have a Japanese passport and you are travelling to the USA.
You show your Japanese passort to the airport staff and the Japan immigration.
Q)Dont Japanese need a visa to go to US?

In case Japanese dont need a visa to go to the US, so ok, they board the flight and alight in the US airport and will show their US passport.
Q)Wont the US authorities ask why isnt there an exit stamp on the US passport by the Japanese immigration?

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: NS

Postby JR8 » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 1:09 am

JJboy wrote:However, after 2 months of training my son does not wish to carry on. We are now looking at what are the avenue and or ways he can get out of NS legally.


A comment that I have seen no one else make so far > the first few months are by far the hardest. As the couch-potato mummies-boys get a dose of soldiering drilled into them.

They start by breaking you down, before building you right back up and then some more.

Yes it feels like 'hell on earth' at the time, but by God you come out the other end as a grown man, with a sense of pride and achievement.

As a parent I would welcome my child doing NS, and suggest they knuckle down and get on with it.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35160
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 6:46 am

Wd40 wrote:Q)Wont the US authorities ask why isnt there an exit stamp on the US passport by the Japanese immigration?


No.

FnTank
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu, 21 Feb 2013
Location: Singapore

Postby FnTank » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 12:21 pm

As someone whom has served NS, I think I remember hearing that only those pursuing(and accepted into) a Medicine programme can be granted further deferment from NS to pursue their University studies.

I think I remember some colleagues/fellow Servicemen whom were granted permission to disrupt/embark on a hiatus halfway through their service as they were accepted into a Medical programme.

When they graduate, they will serve out the remaining months of their service as a Medical Officer(basically as a doctor in the in-camp Medical Centres).

I think, from what I remember, the total number of months that a person has to serve NS depends on (a) Whether they are eligible for Combat vocations or not, and (b) if they passed their IPPT(a standardised physical fitness test) with at least a Silver.

If it is a "yes" on both counts, then the person serves 1 year 10 months rather than the full 2 years(as an incentive to get fit/keep fit before the actual service).

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3459
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 12:29 pm

@fntank : yes you are correct on this but first and foremost you have to be enlisted and joined the NS before you can ever get a disruption. Most of these medical student are already being sponsored by Mindef. Those that are not have to apply for disruption
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

FnTank
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu, 21 Feb 2013
Location: Singapore

Postby FnTank » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 12:30 pm

@Mad Scientist Oh, I didn't know that! I always thought that applying for deferment is a straightfoward/automatic process once somebody has been accepted into Medical School! (As you can see I am not a Medical Student-candidate :P ) Thanks!

Also, I believe everyone is handled on a person-by-person basis, so the elder brother's decisions will not affect the other siblings.

However, taking up Singapore citizenship is a "one or the other" kind of thing, so if someone takes up Singapore Citizenship, then he/she must automatically give up their citizenship elsewhere.

It depends on whether the girls have already taken Singapore Citizenship(pink IC) or not though - if they are still Malaysia citizens or Singapore PR, then they can choose not to take up Singapore Citizenship when offered. (I think I remember some Malaysian schoolmates in the University I am studying in now, saying that they did not take up the offer to become Singapore Citizens)

It is quite straightforward to "move forward", but not so easy to "backtrack"(There are consequences).
Last edited by FnTank on Sat, 23 Feb 2013 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FnTank
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu, 21 Feb 2013
Location: Singapore

Postby FnTank » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 12:54 pm

Also, as for the son currently serving NS and wanting to quit - Please advise him not to break any rules. There are rules and regulations in the military and breaking them means a slippery slope towards a difficult and drawn-out military life. Leaving Singapore(or simply not reporting for duty) without letting anybody know is AWOL(Absent Without Official Leave).

Number of days AWOL equates to roughly a similar amount of time(may be half of total time spent AWOL) sentenced to the Detention Barracks(like a military prison) if caught.

Rather, if he is really feeling unmotivated and unhappy with his current situation, I believe there are ways to do things without breaking any rules. I believe there are Orientation Officers that he can talk to about his issues if he is still in his first few months of NS, in BMT(Basic Military Training). Otherwise, he can also talk to his immediate superiors/commanders, whom may be able to advise him or point him to the right direction. Some are even trained paracounsellers(well, some of my commanders back in NS were :P ).

If it is a medical/psychological issue, then he can also talk to the MOs in the Medical Centres.

If he has spoken to all the Commanders and they cannot help, then with permission from them he may seek help from an MP or MINDEF.

If all else fails, and there is no motivation, then the best way to go about doing it that I can think about is to just "go through the motions" until the end of the 2 years/1 year 10 months. There is a chance that he can be posted to less-intensive vocations/jobs that will give him more free time throughout his NS.

Personally, I'd say my NS experience was worthwhile at the end of the day - It was a welcome 2-year-break from studying(which can be quite stressful in Singapore!), and gave me a new perspective towards life(since now I had time to really think for myself).

As such, I hope your son also finds purpose/fulfilment of his own through the 2 years and above all, stay out of trouble.
Last edited by FnTank on Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3459
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 2:10 pm

FnTank wrote:It depends on whether the girls have already taken Singapore Citizenship(pink IC) or not though - if they are still Malaysia citizens or Singapore PR, then they can choose not to take up Singapore Citizenship when offered. (I think I remember some Malaysian schoolmates in the University I am studying in now, saying that they did not take up the offer to become Singapore Citizens)

It is quite straightforward to "move forward", but not so easy to "backtrack"(There are consequences).


What on earth are you rambling about.? OP children are born in Singapore but possess dual citizenship since the father is a Malaysian hence the children was also give M'sian citizenship

Please reread OP post before you post
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

FnTank
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu, 21 Feb 2013
Location: Singapore

Postby FnTank » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 3:13 pm

Oh, I am sorry. I always thought that Dual Citizenship was impossible for those whom have Singapore Citizenship. (As far as I knew, I thought that the Singapore Government does not allow its Citizens to hold another country's citizenship)

EDIT : Oh, I went and looked it up, and turns out that it is not recognised, but possible up to age 22(Then I presume they have to choose?)

I was thinking of more on a general basis, assuming there was no Dual Citizenship, and if someone were offered Citizenship after spending time in Singapore working/studying.

I guess I was mistaken, and did not read the OP carefully. Thank you for correcting me.

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3459
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 23 Feb 2013 7:00 pm

FnTank wrote:Oh, I am sorry. I always thought that Dual Citizenship was impossible for those whom have Singapore Citizenship. (As far as I knew, I thought that the Singapore Government does not allow its Citizens to hold another country's citizenship)

EDIT : Oh, I went and looked it up, and turns out that it is not recognised, but possible up to age 22(Then I presume they have to choose?)

I was thinking of more on a general basis, assuming there was no Dual Citizenship, and if someone were offered Citizenship after spending time in Singapore working/studying.

I guess I was mistaken, and did not read the OP carefully. Thank you for correcting me.


Herein lies the crux of your misinformation.
A child that is born overseas from a a parent of SG descent, the child is able to attain Singapore citizenship within one year of the birth of the child.
It is not a given but you can apply . If you apply after the first year, the requirement becomes more stringent.
However for OP case, the children are born here hence they are Singaporean. They went to Malaysia and lives there for many years and by virtue of OP M'sian citizenship , his children are given Malaysian citizenship.Period. Capisce ?
Singapore Constitution does not allow dual citizenship after the age of 21. This means a child can have dual citizenship up till the age of 21 and has to renounce one or the other .
Which part of this is not recognize, baffle me.
Malaysia does not recognise dual citizenship too but that is a separate issue with its own legality quagmire and minefield which I do not want to indulge at this point of time.
Countries that allow dual citizenship do allow their citizen to renounce and regain it back before a certain cut off date for a number reasons. One of them is serving NS in Singapore. This process is tedious but achievable.
NS deferment and liabilities starts from the boy reaches the age of 13.
Exit Permit must be applied in order to stay overseas for studies etc. til 16.5 when the first medical check up for NS is required.
In order to apply for renunciation the parent must state their intention when he is 13 to 16 if the child is a dual citizen. He will be given a deferment till 21 pending his renunciation. If he decides to hold on to SG citizen then he has to serve NS.
Going to tertiary before NS does not cut out as the EP for overseas studies cater up to pre Tertiary education only
To give up SG citizenship and at the same time wanting to enter SG Uni for subsidies under SG parent will raise red flag. The child has to pay full fees.
I can go on and on with different scenarios over hundreds of cases


I am not here to toy with you but this is a strictly speaking sub forum where we disseminate info based on fact , anecdotal evidence and other forumers experience where we try to point them to the right direction hence getting our facts right is upmost important.
You can look up what I said on ICA website, Singapore Constitution, MHA Singapore Statutory etc
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

FnTank
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu, 21 Feb 2013
Location: Singapore

Postby FnTank » Sun, 24 Feb 2013 1:31 pm

Thank you very much!

Perhaps I was over-eager to talk about the matter since I had just finished my NS recently and the subject is of interest to me..but because I did not actually know for sure about the matter aside from what I read/heard from others over the years, I made some incorrect statements.

I'm sorry, I will be more careful about what I say from now on.

User avatar
taxico
Director
Director
Posts: 3190
Joined: Sat, 10 May 2008
Location: Existential dilemma!

Postby taxico » Sat, 02 Mar 2013 10:27 am

Mad Scientist wrote:...Recently a US citizen dual citizenship wtih SG , renounced his US citizenship served the NS but at 25 he reapplied thru US embassy to reinstate his US citizenship. This is perfectly legal for US citizen but not with SG as it is illegal to hold dual citizenship after 21
Guess what? US immigration spilled the beans and informed ICA and the rest is history. This is real event thru this forum which I personally encountered .


can you give me some keys words to search for the relevant thread(s)?

also, may i ask why does USCIS have to share information with ICA about this matter...? is this a matter of routine/policy now?

if someone needs a new american passport (it's expiring)... will this also be told to ICA?

i think it's also interesting that the singapore biometric passport has only a validity of 5 years (or 5 years 9 months) instead of the international norm of 10 years...

i also remember that in the past young boys had to renew their passports every 9 or 10 months or the passport will expire very quickly...

User avatar
Mad Scientist
Director
Director
Posts: 3459
Joined: Thu, 03 Dec 2009
Location: TIMBUKTU

Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 02 Mar 2013 1:17 pm

taxico wrote:can you give me some keys words to search for the relevant thread(s)?

also, may i ask why does USCIS have to share information with ICA about this matter...? is this a matter of routine/policy now?

if someone needs a new american passport (it's expiring)... will this also be told to ICA?

i think it's also interesting that the singapore biometric passport has only a validity of 5 years (or 5 years 9 months) instead of the international norm of 10 years...

i also remember that in the past young boys had to renew their passports every 9 or 10 months or the passport will expire very quickly...


It came thru a private message from USSGdecision poster.

I am not able to release what goes between be and him as these correspondence are private and confidential but in a nutshell is what I wrote before.
I did checked if this holds water with some of my ex-colleagues and what I gather is unless it is being relayed to ICA they would not have known.
From my observation and understanding of this incident is, this poster did his reinstatement of his US citizenship at US embassy in SG.
I think SOP guidelines must have been circulated to all embassies which is why it had happened .
Some of my friends sons did their OZ citizenship reinstatement in OZ hence there were no trouble
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

User avatar
taxico
Director
Director
Posts: 3190
Joined: Sat, 10 May 2008
Location: Existential dilemma!

Postby taxico » Sat, 02 Mar 2013 5:22 pm

excellent! thanks!!!


Return to “Strictly Speaking”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests