Singapore Expats Forum

NS

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JJboy
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NS

Postby JJboy » Wed, 20 Feb 2013 8:54 pm

I am a West Malaysian married to a Singaporean. I was a Singapore PR from 1988 to 2008. All our children are born in Singapore and are born Singaporean. However, we had move back to stay in Malaysia since 17 years ago when my eldest boy was 6 years old and the youngest 1 year old.

We had obtained Singapore IC for all our children when they turned 15 years old. But they hold Malaysian citizenship and passport. They never hold any Singapore Passport.

We had written to renounce citizenship for our boys earlier but were refused. However, MINDEF had written to us officially that extension was granted for NS for my son till after age 21 pending renunciation. But upon turning 21, my son opted to serve NS. Thus he was recruited for National Service (NS) and had reported for training in camp in December last year at the age of 22 years old.

However, after 2 months of training my son does not wish to carry on. We are now looking at what are the avenue and or ways he can get out of NS legally.

Can someone out there let me know the followings:-
1. Are there anyways my eldest son can get out of NS legally. He is willing to renounce Singapore citizenship. After all he had spent only the first 6 years of his life in Singapore and thereafter we are in Malaysia, other than the annual social visits to my in law which is typically less than 2 weeks each year.

2. What is the penalty and consequences if he just return to Malaysia without informing anybody?

3. How it would affect his younger brother, who will be 18 years old later this year?
He has not decided whether to renounce his Singapore citizenship or go for NS and renounce later. Thus, how far would it affect his status in choosing to renounce or go for NS, when his elder brother chose-
a. Option 1. above or
b. Option 2. above.

Is it possible for my youngest boy to study in college in Singapore as a Malaysian, after he was granted extension for NS pending renunciation at age 21? By coming in as a Malaysian student, he will be paying foreign student fee and not taking any benefit from the Singapore Government.

4. What will happen to our girls’ status -
a. Do they have to elect to be Singapore citizen or Malaysian citizen when they reach 21 years old? Can they keep quiet about it and have both?
b. If they renounce Singapore citizenship, would they be allowed to apply for PR or Employment pass in Singapore years later?
c. How would it affect them if their elder brother chose
i. Option 1 above or
ii. Option 2 above

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Re: NS

Postby taxico » Wed, 20 Feb 2013 9:53 pm

JJboy wrote:...upon turning 21, my son opted to serve NS. Thus he was recruited for National Service (NS) and had reported for training in camp in December last year at the age of 22 years old.

However, after 2 months of training my son does not wish to carry on. We are now looking at what are the avenue and or ways he can get out of NS legally.


he is now a soldier and will come under the administration of the SAF. they're not gonna return him his civilian ID until he's finished NS.

the good news is: it gets easier as time goes by. he wouldn't be the first to find NS unbearable, but i think at 22 he should know better.

JJboy wrote:...All our children are born in Singapore and are born Singaporean...

We had obtained Singapore IC for all our children when they turned 15 years old...

...Are there anyways my eldest son can get out of NS legally. He is willing to renounce Singapore citizenship...


you might want to check some other posts. short answer: no.

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Re: NS

Postby taxico » Wed, 20 Feb 2013 10:08 pm

JJboy wrote:What is the penalty and consequences if he just return to Malaysia without informing anybody?


AWOL/desertion. army prison (detention barracks) and maybe civilian imprisonment too. going to DB/prison this way extends your NS liability. so if he's caught and jailed for 6 months, he has to serve NS for 6 months longer.

JJboy wrote:How it would affect his younger brother, who will be 18 years old later this year?
He has not decided whether to renounce his Singapore citizenship or go for NS and renounce later. Thus, how far would it affect his status in choosing to renounce or go for NS...


he has to serve NS before renouncing. as a regular joe, i think his elder brother's actions would have little bearing on him. look below for a little bit more info on MPs looking for deserters...

JJboy wrote:Is it possible for my youngest boy to study in college in Singapore as a Malaysian, after he was granted extension for NS pending renunciation at age 21? By coming in as a Malaysian student, he will be paying foreign student fee and not taking any benefit from the Singapore Government.


having a singapore NRIC is a benefit, whether you use it or not.

if by college you mean university, then he would not be allowed to complete uni studies in singapore until he serves at least 3-6 months of NS.

i'm sure the singapore government will know that he's studying in singapore and send him notices accordingly to enlist.

JJboy wrote:What will happen to our girls’ status -
a. Do they have to elect to be Singapore citizen or Malaysian citizen when they reach 21 years old?


yes.


JJboy wrote:If they renounce Singapore citizenship, would they be allowed to apply for PR or Employment pass in Singapore years later?

yes.


the family members of a deserter will be hounded for information leading to the arrest of the deserter. this may cause some inconvenience for your children.

check out some of the other posts in this sub-forum for more details.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 21 Feb 2013 5:25 pm

The was a chap during my time who deserted the army for 7 years while serving NS. We managed to catch him in Brisbane and hauled him back to serve 2 years imprisonment and then on to serve the balance of his NS days.
At 30 years old he was the oldest serving NSF.
The good thing is Mindef released him from reservist once he serve the full term of NS liability

The only legal way is to downgrade to PES E ie. you are physically unfit or mentally retarded certified by MOs abd review board ie CPC
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Postby iamsen » Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:36 pm

Catch?
You mean the Aussies actually extradited him?
Or was he drugged and thrown in a sack?

There was a guy during my time, spent the first 5 years of his life in sg, the rest of it in Melbourne. He wanted to renounce but was told the only way to do so is to serve. His entire family had already emigrated over so he was here all by himself.

If we were to look at it from his point of view, he was living in a strange country with no friends or family, while being forced to serve in a foreign military. It was a really sad sight.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 22 Feb 2013 6:52 am

When they start making exceptions, the problems never cease.

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Postby JJboy » Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:13 am

Do they actually waste tax payer's money to arrest a deserter in a foreign country?

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Postby nakatago » Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:27 am

JJboy wrote:Do they actually waste tax payer's money to arrest a deserter in a foreign country?


Yes and if not, said deserter will never be able to step into Singapore without being arrested without changing identities. The Singapore is very rich as it invests in a lot of companies in Singapore and all over the world.

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Postby JJboy » Fri, 22 Feb 2013 11:30 am

JJboy wrote:
Is it possible for my youngest boy to study in college in Singapore as a Malaysian, after he was granted extension for NS pending renunciation at age 21? By coming in as a Malaysian student, he will be paying foreign student fee and not taking any benefit from the Singapore Government.


having a singapore NRIC is a benefit, whether you use it or not.

if by college you mean university, then he would not be allowed to complete uni studies in singapore until he serves at least 3-6 months of NS.

i'm sure the singapore government will know that he's studying in singapore and send him notices accordingly to enlist.



If he is already granted deferment till age 21, prior to coming to Singapore to study in uni, can they revoke that deferment and ask him to serve NS?

Or would he get further deferment after reaching age 21 if he is studying outside Singapore, where he may require another 1 -2 years to complete his degree?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 22 Feb 2013 3:52 pm

iamsen wrote:Catch?
You mean the Aussies actually extradited him?
Or was he drugged and thrown in a sack?

There was a guy during my time, spent the first 5 years of his life in sg, the rest of it in Melbourne. He wanted to renounce but was told the only way to do so is to serve. His entire family had already emigrated over so he was here all by himself.

If we were to look at it from his point of view, he was living in a strange country with no friends or family, while being forced to serve in a foreign military. It was a really sad sight.


Mate, you are very naive . There are many ways to hauled you back especially if you are a white horse gone wrong or Minister's son
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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 22 Feb 2013 3:57 pm

JJboy wrote:
JJboy wrote:

If he is already granted deferment till age 21, prior to coming to Singapore to study in uni, can they revoke that deferment and ask him to serve NS?

Or would he get further deferment after reaching age 21 if he is studying outside Singapore, where he may require another 1 -2 years to complete his degree?


You want to bake and eat the cake by yourself ? Ain't gonna happen, buddy
The guidelines can be revoked even though you have been granted deferment. Part of it is, deferment granted for overseas studies or local is only up to Pre-U level, JC or diploma. Tertiary education is not allowed deferment
If he is granted on the basis of renounciation at the age of 21, he will not be able to enter local uni
BTW from memory overseas studies means not in Malaysia but OVER THE BIG SEA >
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Postby iamsen » Fri, 22 Feb 2013 4:48 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:Mate, you are very naive . There are many ways to hauled you back especially if you are a white horse gone wrong or Minister's son


Not that it'll concern me for any longer, but please, do enlighten me on the various ways.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 22 Feb 2013 5:37 pm

iamsen wrote:
Mad Scientist wrote:Mate, you are very naive . There are many ways to hauled you back especially if you are a white horse gone wrong or Minister's son


Not that it'll concern me for any longer, but please, do enlighten me on the various ways.


Let me give you an example.
The passport that you are holding especially SG PP even back then will need to be renew every 10 years . Hence you need to go to SG Embassy at Canberra to renew it which will raise a red flag as passport application will go back to ICA for approval
You cannot renounce since you have not done NS liabilities hence you are still a Sger which limits your travel movement
You may acquire OZ PP but back then and still now it will take about 5 to 7 years to acquire one.
The name has already been send out to all exit channel, overseas mission since he is a deserter.
It is a matter of time they found out
Recently a US citizen dual citizenship wtih SG , renounced his US citizenship served the NS but at 25 he reapplied thru US embassy to reinstate his US citizenship. This is perfectly legal for US citizen but not with SG as it is illegal to hold dual citizenship after 21
Guess what? US immigration spilled the beans and informed ICA and the rest is history. This is real event thru this forum which I personally encountered .
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Postby iamsen » Fri, 22 Feb 2013 6:48 pm

So you mean he gets arrested when he steps into the embassy?


If these people already have non-SG passports, and they travel using them, who or what's to stop them?

Honest question, a lot of dual citizen Japanese, when travelling outside Japan, use their non JP passports, and their JP passports when travelling into/out of Japan.

Are the circumstances any different?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 22 Feb 2013 7:45 pm

Depends on the laws of Japan regarding dual citizenship.


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