PR Approved - on hold since unemployed

[sanjumalani]

Background:
My (and wife's) PR has been approved (in principle approval) mid November 2012. However, I have been unemployed since Mid October (and been on a PEP since then which allows me to stay in Singapore).

Although the MoM has graciously allowed me another 2 months of extension to secure employment (i.e. be employed by Mid March 2013) and they may grant my PR blue IC card.

My PR approval took over 6 months and I do not wish to lose it.

Questions:
1. Do I need to obtain a similar job profile and salary as to when I applied for a PR? This will be difficult as I was in investment banking and the entire industry is downsizing. This is what the MoM seemed to indicate (in between the lines)

2. Can I apply for a further extension of the PR (say another 2 months) - how should I go about this? Any particular reason to state for this?

3. My PEP expires in mid April unless I secure employment (since I will be unemployed for 6 months continuously by that time). How do I save my PEP and remain in Singapore (can I get another extension on this)?

Many thanks for your replies.

S

[zzm9980]

Get a job, any job to extend your PEP.

MOM doesn't publish black and white rules on this type of situation, but your entire PR application is evaluated as a whole. So if you went from 15k/month as a banker to a Starbucks barrista, that probably won't fly (unless you're Chinese Malaysian!). But if your application wasn't approved by the skin of its teeth, then a slight career downgrade may not hurt.

Post your details (salary, race, # of kids, time of stay in Singapore), and maybe we can give you a better idea if you just made it for approval, or were a shoe-in.

[sanjumalani]

Salary around 15k, Indian, married with wife in SG on dependent pass (she is studying at Singapore HR Institute) - no kids. Still looking for employment.

Came to SG in Mid 2009 and did an MBA here for 16 months (until end of 2010). Started working and paying taxes in 2011. Paid taxes in 2012 also. Been in SG for almost 4 years now.

Can you answer my question on whether (and how) I can ask for an extension on my In Principle approval (it currently runs out Mid March)?

Also, can I ask for a PEP extension?

Are you with the MoM? - Just curious as you indicated you are able to assess whether I just made it for approval or were a shoe-in.

Thanks,
Sanju

[zzm9980]

No, none of us work for MOM (or at least admit it here). My statement was more to the effect that we could compare your particulars against those of the numerous other cases posted which have allowed us to form a collection rough knowledge.

You can ask ICA for another extension, but that's pushing it and I wouldn't hold out hope. MOM will not give you an extension on the PEP.

As for your details, you're in a rough spot unfortunately. As you may have realized by reading other posts on this forum, Indians are not favored here anymore. Being an Indian works against you. You have no male children, which also works against you. Lastly, you've been here on the shorter half of what is normally required before you can apply for PR. You were probably approved based solely on your salary (the predominant factor), your and your wife's education (much less important) and maybe your former employer. Since the main factor is now gone, along with possibly the other supporting factor, you're in a tough spot.

My opinion on the matter is that I wouldn't hold out much hope unless you secure employment relatively quickly that pays at least a base salary to meet PEP requirements, $12k/month. I say that because my feeling is that the PEP guidelines were raised to match the new (unspoken) PR salary guidelines for those that aren't the promised race.

Good luck friend.

[Wd40]

My advice, is leave this country. If you lost your job in mid Oct and havent secured anything so far, its unlikely that you will secure anything decent in the near future also.

You sound like an Indian. Go back to India. Its the last destination for good jobs. Take up a job there and then look for some opportunity in the west.

Even though it may appear that jobs are moving out of the west and coming to Asia. They are going to low cost destinations in Asia and not Singapore.

Read through efinancialcareers.com.sg. Singapore is doomed as far as banking or banking IT jobs are concerned.

I am working in Banking IT and my job position is going to get outsourced to India(not my city but a different city) sometime in mid or end of this year. Although not earning 15k, but only 8.3k, I havent been able to secure a job anything above 6.5k. I hate to go below that. I would rather wait in my current company and take the severance and go back to India and start afresh.

I have a PEP IPA with me but frankly its not worth the piece of paper that it is printed on. Its the jobs that matter, visa/pr etc are all secondary.

[Brah]

A bit harsh, wd.

You need to consider the time of year in this case - from October new job offers typically decline for many industries, the Q4 curse, and don't really start picking up until New Years and CNY, and in some cases bonus payouts are over.

You are right about more jobs leaving these shores, as we have discussed in our IT / Finance thread (which we should revive).

I would tend to agree with you that there seems to be less jobs now than a year or two ago, but how that plays out over the next two months and beyond is anyone's guess.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Not much I can add to what is a sad situation. The odds of getting another extension are minuscule at best and the odds to extend the PEP does not exists at all as it's been pointed out that it's a one time only situation.

I hope you have a plan B worked out as you have had ample writing on the wall, e.g., since October.

[Wd40]

A bit harsh, wd.

You need to consider the time of year in this case - from October new job offers typically decline for many industries, the Q4 curse, and don't really start picking up until New Years and CNY, and in some cases bonus payouts are over.

You are right about more jobs leaving these shores, as we have discussed in our IT / Finance thread (which we should revive).

I would tend to agree with you that there seems to be less jobs now than a year or two ago, but how that plays out over the next two months and beyond is anyone's guess.

Brah, it's not just about seasonality. All banks had announced layoffs in the latter part of last year and those layoffs will take affect mostly beginning this year and I don't see much respite during the rest of the year or next year either. This deleveraging has just begun and likely to be multi year thing.

I doubt if new head count is going to taken in this year. If anything it will only be replacements of critical head count.

This is not just 1st hand info from my own company but efinancialcareers also tells the same story. We have an internal jobs movement site and there are hardly any new positions created in Singapore but other locations like Zurich, London, New York has plenty of openings. In Singapore, every team that is not direct customer facing, has a clear road map of when and where to be outsourced to an Indian city or Poland

[Brah]

WD, if you've read my comments in the http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic91695.html thread you'll know that I've been saying about the same thing. Perhaps we should pick this conversation up there (we need Sergei, who has been mysteriously absent lately).

For that reason I can't disagree with you here as I'd be disagreeing with myself.

Having said that, there is hiring, albeit reduced, going on or soon, and some of the layoffs are to a) show profits, or less losses for Q4; b) reduce the number of people to pay bonuses to, for pretty much the same reason as (1); c) get rid of dead wood (a couple of hiring managers have told me they were doing this to upscale their teams); d) some companies are waiting until the end of Q1 to hire (I know of two banks doing this).

There still may very well be some positive, albeit limited changes post CNY - I myself am hoping on but not counting on that. Anyone, anywhere, really needs to hedge themselves in various locations.

Edit: Actually most of the relevant posts from the Manpower thread were not moved into the split-out thread. http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic91430.html - so one would have to read both to remember what we were talking about pre-split.

[Brah]

Not much I can add to what is a sad situation. The odds of getting another extension are minuscule at best and the odds to extend the PEP does not exists at all as it's been pointed out that it's a one time only situation.

You get a month LTSVP or whatever it's called. After that you're a tourist in your own apartment.

[sanjumalani]

Thanks a lot everyone for your replies. It is extremely helpful.

I guess I'm not really looking at banking jobs given the current economic scenario and pending layoffs - however, I am looking at roles in the corporate sector which is more stable.

Coming up with issues such as (a) large comp gap which is why some employers prefer not to hire and (b) cultural issues given I'm from IB some employers like the Big 4 may not prefer to have bankers on board (also potential flight risk when market turns).

I just need a job to be able to stick around and come out of this down cycle with prospects of a job in IB when (and if) hiring picks up.

Dont have a plan B as such except HK - but language issues there as I am not conversant in Mandarin/Cantonese.

Thoughts welcome

[ulu ulu]

I don't think your employment gap will be an issue. Everyone is aware of the current market scenarios. There are redundancies in the financial industry in many economies. Lot of qualified people find themselves out of job for no fault of theirs.

You should be able to demonstrate something positive you did during the gap. It could be learning a new skill, doing community work or something.

[zzm9980]

Dont have a plan B as such except HK - but language issues there as I am not conversant in Mandarin/Cantonese.

Primary business language in HK for most MNCs and banks will be English. Cantonese in the office will be like Mandarin here. Shouldn't be an issue unless you're working for an SME or smaller.