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A question about dropping citizenship

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ralph_major
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A question about dropping citizenship

Postby ralph_major » Sun, 10 Feb 2013 3:11 am

Hello

I am a 20 year old singaporean and am currently doing national service. I hold dual citizenship (singaporean and british) until i am 21 years old. My question is.... once i have finished my two years of national service can i drop my singaporean citizenship and apply for singaporean PR??...that way i will be able to keep my british citizenship and have singapore PR.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 10 Feb 2013 9:46 am

Nope. You will get a Social visit valid for 30 days and then you are on your own. Unless you are a top notch brain surgeon, it's doubtful that you will ever get anything more than a standard tourist visa as once your reach majority (21) you are on your own and the fact that your parents might be here, too bad as that no longer gives you any "perks". It puts you between a rock & a hard place.

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Postby ralph_major » Sun, 10 Feb 2013 7:30 pm

mhmmm....But i know a ex singaporean(who has completed his national service then given up his citzenship) who hass comeback to singapore and is now working here...athough he does not have PR or citizenship he can stilll work insingapore
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 10 Feb 2013 10:59 pm

Yes, but you are speaking about a 21 year old kid just coming out of NS with no experience. Once you turn 21 your parents no longer cause you to have special rights. At that point on you much qualify just like any other foreigner, e.g., you will need a good degree and at least 3 years in that field and home you can qualify for an Employment Pass. This you have to qualify for on your own merits but you will need a niche that does not have a lot of Singaporeans or PRs already suitably qualified. In other words, you will need to be bringing something to the table that is in short supply here.

What may have happened up until two years ago, no longer can be used as any sort of guideline as it's all been thrown out the window.

Think very carefully, as once you make the decision to renounce and actually go through with it, it's irrevocable.

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Postby ralph_major » Mon, 11 Feb 2013 5:47 am

I see...so basically once i complete my NS i will need to get my degree and three years of practice and then i can submit an employment form to singapore and am eligible to work in SG....i understand that the places are limited but if i have been given a job in SG by my company then surely the SG goverment will give me a working visa(since i legally dropped my citizenship) as in the case of my freind.
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Re: sundaymorningstaple

Postby Wd40 » Mon, 11 Feb 2013 7:19 am

ralph_major wrote:I see...so basically once i complete my NS i will need to get my degree and three years of practice and then i can submit an employment form to singapore and am eligible to work in SG....i understand that the places are limited but if i have been given a job in SG by my company then surely the SG goverment will give me a working visa(since i legally dropped my citizenship) as in the case of my freind.


What you say is possible, but not guaranteed. You must understand that the visa is given at the discretion of MoM and they have their own set of rules, some are known and some are unknown and the rules get tighter and tighter as days pass.

A citizen can take any job he wants as long as the employer is willing to employ. A foreigner can take only those jobs that the MoM thinks Singaporeans cant do or wont do and employer willing to sponsor. Thats the baseline definition now. Few years later this definition could get even more stringent may be like foreigners can do only those jobs that MoM thinks is absolutely critical and Singaporeans cant do. For eg Medical. If you are in the service industry or in IT then you are taking a big risk.

How big is the risk? Depends on your skills and also depends on how the political climate here changes in the next few years.

Whether it is worth taking the risk? Depends on how badly you want to come back to Singapore.

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Postby ralph_major » Tue, 12 Feb 2013 2:53 am

Thanks for that info Wd40....i have another query id like to discuss.....i know a freind who was born in Sg but left the country when he was below the age of 11(4 yrs old)...he also has dual citizenship from his fathers side..... anyways he studied and lived in a forgein land and did all the necessary steps required for him to legally drop his citizenship withouth doing national service!!!(he says that this is because of a SG law which states somewhat along the line of: If you have left Sg at an age before 11 years old and have not enjoyed socio economic benifits and have dual citizenship you are eligiblibe to drop your citizenship without serving national service!!)...btw this boy is now 25 yrs old and has sinced legally dropped his SG citizenship and is infact working for his father in singapore as an engineer.....so what i am basically trying to say is will i have the same chance as this boy to come back to singapore and work(i plan on doing engineering also) or am i in a different circumstance to him?
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Postby Mi Amigo » Tue, 12 Feb 2013 9:23 am

ralph_major wrote:Thanks for that info Wd40....i have another query id like to discuss.....i know a freind who was born in Sg but left the country when he was below the age of 11(4 yrs old)...he also has dual citizenship from his fathers side..... anyways he studied and lived in a forgein land and did all the necessary steps required for him to legally drop his citizenship withouth doing national service!!!(he says that this is because of a SG law which states somewhat along the line of: If you have left Sg at an age before 11 years old and have not enjoyed socio economic benifits and have dual citizenship you are eligiblibe to drop your citizenship without serving national service!!)...btw this boy is now 25 yrs old and has sinced legally dropped his SG citizenship and is infact working for his father in singapore as an engineer.....so what i am basically trying to say is will i have the same chance as this boy to come back to singapore and work(i plan on doing engineering also) or am i in a different circumstance to him?

Ralph, TBH you'd be better off concentrating on your own situation and not worrying about other people. SMS and WD40 have given some wise advice above; another expert in this area is Mad Scientist (MS) and he may want to comment further at some point, although I think your status and options have already been covered by the previous comments.

The key point is that if you renounce your citizenship then any application by a potential employer for an Employment Pass would be considered on its (and your) own merits at that time - for example, whether it was really necessary to hire a foreigner (that would be you) to do a job that perhaps a Singaporean (that would not be you) could do.

No two applications are ever the same, but let's just make up a hypothetical scenario that you renounce your citizenship and then you and your friend are both offered identical jobs at the same employer. Not very likely of course, but in such a situation (where you'd both be classified as foreigners), one question would be whether your having completed NS would give you any 'advantage' for an EP application. I have no idea about that, but I would guess that other factors (availability or otherwise of Singaporeans to do the job, salary level, your experience, etc.) would be higher up the list. If your friend were (say) 26 at the time and you were 21 with less experience relevant to the job, I'd say that would be a significant factor in his favour and against you.

You will surely be aware of the amount of corrosive anti-foreigner rhetoric that is being aired these days - if you become a 'foreigner' here then you will also be subject to the same treatment, possibly even more so as an ex-citizen. As SMS says, you need to think very carefully before making a decision. I'm sure it's not an easy one, but I would ask yourself this question: If you want to remain in Singapore, why give up Singaporean citizenship?

Good luck.
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