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A cpl of questions regarding the current population Debate

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A cpl of questions regarding the current population Debate

Postby Barnsley » Sat, 09 Feb 2013 12:01 am

1. I read in the paper today one MP asked if companies were out there actively seeking Malay PMETs and if not why not?

Isn't the whole issue about foreigners coming here and taking the PMET positions from locals, if so how would bringing Malays in help matters?

2. Below that article was something about race definition and that new Filipino citizens would be defined as Malay?

Is Malay a generic word used for folk from SEA then?

Otherwise why would Filipino's be classed as Malay?
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Postby JR8 » Sat, 09 Feb 2013 1:21 am

Because IME most journalists are complete morons, who have absolutely no knowledge, desire, understanding, or insight into the subjects upon which they prognosticate.

It really is that simple.

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Re: A cpl of questions regarding the current population Deba

Postby Wd40 » Sat, 09 Feb 2013 4:58 am

Barnsley wrote:1. I read in the paper today one MP asked if companies were out there actively seeking Malay PMETs and if not why not?

Isn't the whole issue about foreigners coming here and taking the PMET positions from locals, if so how would bringing Malays in help matters?

2. Below that article was something about race definition and that new Filipino citizens would be defined as Malay?

Is Malay a generic word used for folk from SEA then?

Otherwise why would Filipino's be classed as Malay?


Can you post link to the article or which website it is or some keywords to google?

When I google for Malay PMET I get only results from the sites like transitioning.org or tremeritus.

I am 100% sure that your 1st question, the MP asked is about local Malays. Typically when the term Malay is used in its own in Singapore, it refers to local Malay race and your second questions; Filipinos are not Malays. Its like saying Germans are Spanish.

Malays are only native Maleyu speakers in Malaysia and Singapore. Even Indonesians who have very strong links to Maleyu and Malay are not classified as Malays.

Filipinos are totally different. Although their language has some words and links to the Maleyu language, culturally they are completely different. Mostly Christians and have Spanish names, Spanish or American accent and whole lot European/western oriented.

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Re: A cpl of questions regarding the current population Deba

Postby nakatago » Sat, 09 Feb 2013 9:30 am

Barnsley wrote:Otherwise why would Filipino's be classed as Malay?


I really find the obsession with race stupid. Why would they blanket Filipinos under Malay? There are Chinese, Indian, European, etc Filipinos too. It's not even about culture--it's genetics.

Just to troll them, I once put "Pacific Islander" for race in a form. It was for kayaking.

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Re: A cpl of questions regarding the current population Deba

Postby x9200 » Sat, 09 Feb 2013 11:54 am

Barnsley wrote:1. I read in the paper today one MP asked if companies were out there actively seeking Malay PMETs and if not why not?

Isn't the whole issue about foreigners coming here and taking the PMET positions from locals, if so how would bringing Malays in help matters?

2. Below that article was something about race definition and that new Filipino citizens would be defined as Malay?

Is Malay a generic word used for folk from SEA then?

Otherwise why would Filipino's be classed as Malay?

Apparently because of one German guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay_race

Image

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Re: A cpl of questions regarding the current population Deba

Postby Wd40 » Sat, 09 Feb 2013 12:18 pm

nakatago wrote:
Barnsley wrote:Otherwise why would Filipino's be classed as Malay?


I really find the obsession with race stupid. Why would they blanket Filipinos under Malay? There are Chinese, Indian, European, etc Filipinos too. It's not even about culture--it's genetics.

Just to troll them, I once put "Pacific Islander" for race in a form. It was for kayaking.


There is some logic to it. Chinese, Indians and Europeans are distinctly different in skin and features.

Lets take Europe as an example. Spanish and Portuguese are very similar just that language is different but they dont seperate them as different races.

Similarly Malays from Malaysia and Filipinos from Philipines are facial features wise almost similar and hence there is no reason why to segregate them into different races.

If that was the case, then every country will be a different race.

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Re: A cpl of questions regarding the current population Deba

Postby x9200 » Sat, 09 Feb 2013 12:51 pm

nakatago wrote:
Barnsley wrote:Otherwise why would Filipino's be classed as Malay?


I really find the obsession with race stupid. Why would they blanket Filipinos under Malay? There are Chinese, Indian, European, etc Filipinos too. It's not even about culture--it's genetics.

Just to troll them, I once put "Pacific Islander" for race in a form. It was for kayaking.


It seems that SG gov believes in racial identity to be stronger than the national. In such diversified region they are probably right.

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Re: A cpl of questions regarding the current population Deba

Postby taxico » Sat, 09 Feb 2013 12:59 pm

Barnsley wrote:1. I read in the paper today one MP asked if companies were out there actively seeking Malay PMETs and if not why not?

Isn't the whole issue about foreigners coming here and taking the PMET positions from locals, if so how would bringing Malays in help matters?


they're marginalized, i think, despite being equally qualified.

http://temasektimes.wordpress.com/2012/ ... shattered/

http://www.transitioning.org/2012/08/10 ... imination/

etc... (look at related posts) in the above.

i guess they could be used to fill up positions... in lieu of FTs?!
Last edited by taxico on Sat, 09 Feb 2013 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A cpl of questions regarding the current population Deba

Postby nakatago » Sat, 09 Feb 2013 1:26 pm

Wd40 wrote:
nakatago wrote:
Barnsley wrote:Otherwise why would Filipino's be classed as Malay?


I really find the obsession with race stupid. Why would they blanket Filipinos under Malay? There are Chinese, Indian, European, etc Filipinos too. It's not even about culture--it's genetics.

Just to troll them, I once put "Pacific Islander" for race in a form. It was for kayaking.


There is some logic to it. Chinese, Indians and Europeans are distinctly different in skin and features.

Lets take Europe as an example. Spanish and Portuguese are very similar just that language is different but they dont seperate them as different races.

Similarly Malays from Malaysia and Filipinos from Philipines are facial features wise almost similar and hence there is no reason why to segregate them into different races.

If that was the case, then every country will be a different race.


Well, the operative word from my post was "blanket."

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Re: A cpl of questions regarding the current population Deba

Postby JR8 » Sun, 10 Feb 2013 12:58 am

Wd40 wrote:There is some logic to it. Chinese, Indians and Europeans are distinctly different in skin and features.

Lets take Europe as an example. Spanish and Portuguese are very similar just that language is different but they dont seperate them as different races.

Similarly Malays from Malaysia and Filipinos from Philipines are facial features wise almost similar and hence there is no reason why to segregate them into different races.

If that was the case, then every country will be a different race.


I think you're wide of the mark, and you're mixing up race with nationality.

Spain and Portugal form the bulk of the Iberian Peninsular
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Peninsular
The national boundary diving the two is modern-day and political. The people's of the two countries have been free to roam to and fro since year dot. That is why Portuguese and Spanish look similar.

However I strongly disagree that Malays (bumiputra) look like ('your typical') Philippino. I can usually distinguish the latter based on eye-shape alone.

FWIW my hunch is that the policy might be a case of hitting 'two birds with one stone'. Firstly it ensures the Chinese majority of x% is not diluted, and secondly it reduces the amount of (real) Malays under their quota.

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Re: A cpl of questions regarding the current population Deba

Postby Wd40 » Sun, 10 Feb 2013 9:31 am

JR8 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:There is some logic to it. Chinese, Indians and Europeans are distinctly different in skin and features.

Lets take Europe as an example. Spanish and Portuguese are very similar just that language is different but they dont seperate them as different races.

Similarly Malays from Malaysia and Filipinos from Philipines are facial features wise almost similar and hence there is no reason why to segregate them into different races.

If that was the case, then every country will be a different race.


I think you're wide of the mark, and you're mixing up race with nationality.

Spain and Portugal form the bulk of the Iberian Peninsular
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Peninsular
The national boundary diving the two is modern-day and political. The people's of the two countries have been free to roam to and fro since year dot. That is why Portuguese and Spanish look similar.

However I strongly disagree that Malays (bumiputra) look like ('your typical') Philippino. I can usually distinguish the latter based on eye-shape alone.


Spain and Portugal was just an example, may be a bad one. Like you said you can distinguish between Filipinos and Malays, by the same vein, I think its possible to distinguish between a British and a Russian? Or a Italian and a Pole? Yet the whole of Europe is called a single race isnt it? Hence my reasoning that Malay, Filipino etc are same race.

I think the eye features thing variation is very marked in South East Asia and North Asia. I think the distinct eye features categories are Japanese, Koreans, Combodians, Malays, Filipinos etc.

That way almost every country in South East Asia and North Asia have different eye features but would you call each country as a different race? I dont think so. If it was true then you must take other subtle differences too into account and split the Europeans in different races.

In fact, I would also argue that all people from China dont look identical. You can find easily distinguishable features for every region. For example as you go towards Mongolia they look closer and closer to Europeans. There are some with very small eyes, some with very big eyes. So if Filipinos and Malays are different races, Chinese as a race is wrong term. There must be several races in China, by the same logic. :)

BTW, its not always easy to identify the Filipinos, unless they start talking. There are Filipinos in my office who come in all forms and features. Some look very close to chinese and some very close to Malays. One person actually looks almost like a Combodian with round eyes :? First glance, yes, you would think its easy to identify them. But the more and more you see them, you realize there is quite a bit of variety in them as well

I think we must have a contest here, of posting pictures and asking people to guess the race. I am sure there will be some shocking guesses :lol:

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 10 Feb 2013 8:36 pm

Hmmm... thought provoking. I don't know enough about the technical genetic/racial differentiation to say anything further really.

re: China, yes there are certainly many different groups with different physical appearances. But again, China is a 'political delineation', rather than a genetic one.

When I lived in NE Asia I could differentiate between Japanese and South Koreans without even stopping to think. That largely came down to how they dressed and their hairstyles (but also eye-shape).

Interesting how the brain interprets these visual cues!

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Re: A cpl of questions regarding the current population Deba

Postby Barnsley » Mon, 11 Feb 2013 10:05 am

Wd40 wrote:
Barnsley wrote:1. I read in the paper today one MP asked if companies were out there actively seeking Malay PMETs and if not why not?

Isn't the whole issue about foreigners coming here and taking the PMET positions from locals, if so how would bringing Malays in help matters?

2. Below that article was something about race definition and that new Filipino citizens would be defined as Malay?

Is Malay a generic word used for folk from SEA then?

Otherwise why would Filipino's be classed as Malay?


Can you post link to the article or which website it is or some keywords to google?

When I google for Malay PMET I get only results from the sites like transitioning.org or tremeritus.

I am 100% sure that your 1st question, the MP asked is about local Malays. Typically when the term Malay is used in its own in Singapore, it refers to local Malay race and your second questions; Filipinos are not Malays. Its like saying Germans are Spanish.

Malays are only native Maleyu speakers in Malaysia and Singapore. Even Indonesians who have very strong links to Maleyu and Malay are not classified as Malays.

Filipinos are totally different. Although their language has some words and links to the Maleyu language, culturally they are completely different. Mostly Christians and have Spanish names, Spanish or American accent and whole lot European/western oriented.


Sorry for slow reply have been rather ill so not been online.

The story was in the print edition on Friday of the local broadsheet. It should still be in work Wednesday so I will scan it and try and upload it somewhere if possible.
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Postby morenangpinay » Thu, 14 Feb 2013 10:40 am

To me, the government coming out with that definition of clustering Filipino new citizens as malays is just them trying to box Filipinos into their ideal race. It also works around the problem of removing FTs but maintaining other nationalities in Singapore to fillup the jobs which looks good for press release if you don't really think bout it.

but to answer, history is that filipinos come from the Malay race and that was what I actually believed until I came to Singapore and I got categorized into others. Also, Philippine education has taught us for years that filipinos come from the Malay race. I observed also that Filipinos tend to have some affinity with malaysians maybe because of this idea.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 14 Feb 2013 11:02 am

I was always under that impression as well, that they were of Malay descendants mixed with Spanish and Japanese and Caucasians over the last several hundred years.


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