Have you nothing useful to say, but feel compelled to say something anyway?taxico wrote:have you searched this forum, googled the internet and generally did some fact finding, or is this (and other places you may have posted a similar thread) your first stop?
Welcome to the forum, stranger. We don't take kindly to people asking basic questions in an expat forum 'round these parts.Draco wrote: I know the kind of visas that are available for Singapore, but what I don't know is whether any of them are applicable to my specific line of work - and how easy/difficult they are to obtain in real life.
And what I also don't know is why the heck I have to justify myself asking such a basic question in an expat forum?
If asking some basic questions with regards to the ease or difficulty in obtaining work & residency permits in an expat forum is asking too much, then what use is it anyway?
You do realize how contradictory your reply is?Welcome to the forum, stranger. We don't take kindly to people asking basic questions in an expat forum 'round these parts.
Try to search the forum as suggested, but chances are you won't be any wiser after digging up outdated info and half baked replies.
Believe me. if google would have allowed me to find an IT contractor forum *for Singapore*, I would have gone there.But then again, this is not the best place to ask such questions, in your case. Try IT Contractor forums.
OK, I was afraid that Entrepass visa was to closely modelled after the US way.A1: Open a company under the Entrepreneur visa(Entrepass way). Check the gov. site for details. Most IT folks with capital under 1 mil. would say it's not worth it. Do some research, visit Singapore and go to entrepreneur events, you might find out why.
As of now, I only have contracts from European/US companies.A2: Open a company and get an Employment Pass(EP way) for yourself.Tricky, would be much easier with a local partner.
With your background chances are you'll need the P1. If you've got big contracts already things will be smoother.( Do you? If not getting first the contracts or a firm promise should be considered before setting up shop in Sg)
In the US you'd do that mostly via H1b's, which are nothing else but legalized IT slavery permits.Get employed(EP) with one the many ManCos around. Obviously it's a trade-off, but you could get the right connections and later take it from there with a setup like A2.
First off, that is what I came in for here, "oppinions" based on first hand knowledge from people on-site.A: It's very uncommon for Sg corporations to work with independents. They largely prefer perm employees, but you could circumvent that by going through a ManCo as described in A3. Or create your own (better know what you're doing) , as decribed in A2.
As taxes are low and being a permie comes with perks (proper health insurance etc.), most IT Contractors are ok with perm positions in Singapore instead of the typical 3months-1year contracts they would go for in Europe or US.
Again, this is just my opinion...
Dear "moderator", if your time is so "valuable", then why did you waste so much of it lecturing me about how to find info elsewhere, rather than investing it in providing it yourself?We do not mind searching for obsure answers, but we don't like having to spell out the whole policies that are easily found both here and on the WWW as well. Don't get us wrong, but please don't assume that we are all paid to do this. NONE of us are paid, moderators included. Our time is valuable as well.
i asked a question. i can't help how you felt over what i asked... yes, i do feel compelled o say something some times, but in this instance, i shall opt to include:Draco wrote:Have you nothing useful to say, but feel compelled to say something anyway?
You obviously have done absolutely no research here at all, so I guess we all can have a good chuckle over your making a right arse of yourself with that statement.Thus I reason from your reply, dear Sir, that you just don't know any answers - but felt like lecturing me anyway.
There are no IT contractor forums specifically for Singapore, due to the reasons described already. Working as independent/contractor, Europe style, is not officially allowed in Sg. So it's either hush-hush or under the A1-A3 setups already described.Draco wrote:Believe me. if google would have allowed me to find an IT contractor forum *for Singapore*, I would have gone there.But then again, this is not the best place to ask such questions, in your case. Try IT Contractor forums.
50k funds would be your last problem with the Entrepass - these days, people on the Entrepass with 2mil+ capital are reconsidering their options.Draco wrote: OK, I was afraid that Entrepass visa was to closely modelled after the US way.
I had hoped to obtain one for roughly US$50k in "funds", but not having to actually spend it all (like in the US), but just depositing it in an SG bank account, then use the money to finance my way through my first year of operation.
Once more, I couldn't find any info if that idea of mine is in any way practicable or recommendable.
It's not illegal(grey zone). You can come on a 3-months tourist visa and do interviews, meetings, set up contracts. It only gets dicey when you start getting paid. At that point you should have already A1-A3 set up.Draco wrote: As of now, I only have contracts from European/US companies.
In the US it would be illegal for me to go looking around for work, *before* I got a visa - classical catch 22.
How is that handled in SG?
It's not bad. Access to important clients, business trips. Often better than a typical perm job. Your experience may vary.Draco wrote:In the US you'd do that mostly via H1b's, which are nothing else but legalized IT slavery permits. How good/bad is that situation in SG?Get employed(EP) with one the many ManCos around. Obviously it's a trade-off, but you could get the right connections and later take it from there with a setup like A2.
You're welcome. It's not pink, it's not brown either. Hard to set up shop but still a great place for business. And like the rest of Asia, Singapore has great energy, which is missing in Europe/US atm.Draco wrote: I am at the age where I need to pick my battles, so I try to figure out in advance, if my dreams about SG are true or just based on pink pie stories from the local business adventure TV channel.
Since I was looking forward to info like yours, and not flame wars, I won't bother replying to the other posters.
To you dear Sir I say "thanks for useful feedback".
I don't want to do "hush hush" anymore.diseq wrote:
... no IT contractor forums specifically for Singapore, due to the reasons described already. Working as independent/contractor, Europe style, is not officially allowed in Sg. So it's either hush-hush ...
So much for trying to decipher the legal mumbo jumbo of government website on my owndiseq wrote:
50k funds would be your last problem with the Entrepass - these days, people on the Entrepass with 2mil+ capital are reconsidering their options.
Try hiring 4-8 locals within one year and you 'might' get a renewal.
But first, just for fun, try hiring 1 good local employee. Interviews are a blast and a great culture-shock introduction to running a business in Asia.
Now this is important!diseq wrote:
It's not illegal(grey zone). You can come on a 3-months tourist visa and do interviews, meetings, set up contracts. It only gets dicey when you start getting paid. At that point you should have already A1-A3 set up.
Do you know how often such a temp work visa can be extended (w/o too much hassle!), and if its tied to your employer or to yourself?diseq wrote:
It's not bad. Access to important clients, business trips. Often better than a typical perm job.
Asia is a big place, the biggest of them all - and they are not all alike.You're welcome. It's not pink, it's not brown either. Hard to set up shop but still a great place for business. And like the rest of Asia, Singapore has great energy, which is missing in Europe/US atm.
...
If you come here, remember that this is Asia
I find it indeed remarkable how much useful info *you* can provide, whilst most other poster(s), who still feel compelled to jump in here, got nothing useful to contribute at all - but seem to be very insistent on starting some sort of flame war instead.diseq wrote:
Perhaps you should pick your forum battles wisely as well... Arguing with the mods, as a newbie...
moderatorDraco wrote:Dear diseq,
Thanks again for your helpful input.
I don't want to do "hush hush" anymore.diseq wrote:
... no IT contractor forums specifically for Singapore, due to the reasons described already. Working as independent/contractor, Europe style, is not officially allowed in Sg. So it's either hush-hush ...
I did that in the US for way too long, before I got myself legal (for way too much money).
But I also don't want to end up slaving the day away for a meager paycheck at the end of the month and 2 weeks vacation each year.
So much for trying to decipher the legal mumbo jumbo of government website on my owndiseq wrote:
50k funds would be your last problem with the Entrepass - these days, people on the Entrepass with 2mil+ capital are reconsidering their options.
Try hiring 4-8 locals within one year and you 'might' get a renewal.
But first, just for fun, try hiring 1 good local employee. Interviews are a blast and a great culture-shock introduction to running a business in Asia.
Because I understood that with a US$50k deposit "in the Bank", one would be allowed to register and operate his own small business in SG.
but I understand from you that the actual investment required for that is 2 million, plus hiring 4+ SG natives on top?
Read the following sticky thread in this forum. There is a wealth of information on this board if one takes the time to actually look. It's a sticky at the top of the page entitled Question About Entrepass Changes and answers most of your questions in that regard as well as giving you the correct information which is NOT what you just received. (You misunderstood what was actually written).
Now this is important!diseq wrote:
It's not illegal(grey zone). You can come on a 3-months tourist visa and do interviews, meetings, set up contracts. It only gets dicey when you start getting paid. At that point you should have already A1-A3 set up.
Is it legal to work in SG if I do *not* get paid?
Because in the US it isn't - but if I could provide some "free samples" of my work to local clients or potential employers, then it might get me a better chance at landing a top spot job.
Conducting business and working are too different things. When you are working you are handing somebody a product. If you are a programmer or software specialist, then anything you give in the way of "samples" are produced by hand and therefore a work in progress. e.g., software with limitations that is so popular to download for free and it works in a limited fashion to try to get you to buy. That is considered work and it's verboten. If they are already you clients, then IRAS will deem you working FOR your clients whether you actually get paid not or at some point in the future or even payment is received here or in your home country. It's still working as opposed to conducting business.
Do you know how often such a temp work visa can be extended (w/o too much hassle!), and if its tied to your employer or to yourself?diseq wrote:
It's not bad. Access to important clients, business trips. Often better than a typical perm job.
There is NO temp work visa for a free-lance consultant. There is a miscellaneous work pass but this is only good for 60 days and limited usage: http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/ ... fault.aspx and is only good for a period of time (60days) and then MOM will say, bye-bye. The Ministry of Manpower has see virtually every ruse there is and they are a pretty smart bunch. Never underestimate them. I have be called the assist them in changing their appeals processes via this board due to the work I do here. In fact. this URL is currently listed & recommended by the MOM three times on the MOM's government website because of the work we do here. They've got you coming and going. See the MOM.gov.sg for the various types of visas. THEN, when you have done that, if you have specific questions feel free to ask. We like helping people who help themselves.
Because in the US you can renew your H1b once, then its "bye, bye, home time", and your employer "owns" that visa, not you.
The only visa you can "own" in Singapore is the PEP. Current requirement are around 10 years experience in your field and a minimum current salary in your home country equivalent to $18,000 SGD/p.m., otherwise forgeddit
See the following link for MOM visa details:
http://www.mom.gov.sg/Pages/default.asp ... LinksPane2
Unfortunately, the PEP is only valid for 3 years and it's a ONE TIME Pass only.
If I could stay & work in SG for at least a decade on a temp work visa, then I'd consider that instead of the Entrepass (US$100K is all I could ever manage to invest in my own biz venture).
Asia is a big place, the biggest of them all - and they are not all alike.You're welcome. It's not pink, it's not brown either. Hard to set up shop but still a great place for business. And like the rest of Asia, Singapore has great energy, which is missing in Europe/US atm.
...
If you come here, remember that this is Asia
But what I am looking for in SG is not just simple energy, but business spirit.
There is plenty of energy in Europe and the US - but the former wastes it all on social experiments and unsustainable political adventures, while the later is much to preoccupied with fighting a never ending culture war.
When it comes to simply "taking care of business", neither one comes out on top these days.
They can complain about the abysmal human rights record in places like China all they want, but I am fascinated that those people managed to recover from 3 recession spells, just during the last decade, w/o too much trouble.
While neither the US nor Europe managed to fully recover from any of their last downturns.
So I hope to catch a little of that spirit for myself in SG, which I think is close enough to China to "ride the dragon", but also closely enough linked to the West that someone like me should (hopefully) not look too much like an utterly misplaced foreigner all the time.
I am used to working my rear end of 14/6, but on the 7th day I want to rest, as promised in scripture.
And that means I want enough money left after taxes and PC contributions to be able to "enjoy some quality time" at week's end.
I got no problem paying my fair share in taxes, but 48% for government programs I either never use or which I know will be bankrupt by the time I *might* need them, that is not the kind of deal I want for myself.
I find it indeed remarkable how much useful info *you* can provide, whilst most other poster(s), who still feel compelled to jump in here, got nothing useful to contribute at all - but seem to be very insistent on starting some sort of flame war instead.diseq wrote:
Perhaps you should pick your forum battles wisely as well... Arguing with the mods, as a newbie...
Given that the top flamer is supposed to act as "moderator" in here, I have to acknowledge that he's doing a very poor job when it comes to PR for this forum.
Considering the source of that comment, you can be forgiven. This isn't the USofA. This forum is run the way WE like it. It works, It's the no. 1 rated expat forum in Singapore and has been for quite a while, so we must be doing something right. If you plan on coming to Asia, maybe you might want to change YOUR attitude. as you really don't want to come off looking like a capital "R".
Because if any potential newbie visiting this site finds that the primary response he can expect to his questions will be a spiteful "why didn't you go and google that" or some hastily pasted URLs to some generalist government websites - utterly useless for answering questions requiring specific knowledge about the *on-site* situation - then why bother to register?
You want a babysitter is it?
I haven't come here to socialize, I'm not that desperate for company that I'd spend my few spare hours each day in cyberspace, huddled over a keyboard under the dim light of a desk lamp.
I came because I needed exactly the kind of info you provided, w/o complaints and w/o spiteful comments.
So if you can do that, you being just a newbie like myself, then maybe that "moderator" should moderate himself first and foremost.
That's well, fine and good. Provided you have gotten the correct information from a newbie (which you didn't) or to put it differently, you didn't read carefully and assumed.....
I for one don't plan to stay here any longer than is absolutely necessary for my information gathering quest.
What good is an SG ex-pat website where the mods are so utterly unwilling to let people ask questions related to immigration and worklife in SG?
Singapore only welcomes foreign TALENT. Talent normally has the common sense to try to find their own answers as much as possible and not depend on being spoon fed. Believe me, when you deal with Asians, you will be anything BUT spoon fed and will be expected to deliver on time for less cost without a bunch of sniveling. Welcome to Asia. It's not Europe nor the USofA. I've seen some crybabies but you take the cake.
I've got too much work to squeeze into to little time, to do anything but come straight to the point.
I'll bet you are the only person in the world who is in that situation, right?![]()
Otherwise I would agree that diplomacy is the better part of valor, but I reserve that for places where I plan to settle down for longer.
Thanks again for your useful input
Draco,sundaymorningstaple wrote:Draco,
We have to remember you are "at the agere were I need to pick my battles" whatever agere is. At what age that you attain this? This isn't the place to pick a battle. As they say here....sure to lose.
Our other senior moderator, Strong Eagle, has/had a business for large scale region wide systems as a project salvage team. Sounds like something like you might be into. After 6 or 8 years, he's just packed it in and recently returned to Houston. Maybe he will see your posts here and give you a hand as he speaks your technical language and is the business guru here (e.g., entrepass/pte ltd), although without the whinging. He's still a mod here and weighs in usually in the evening our time.
You obviously have done absolutely no research here at all, so I guess we all can have a good chuckle over your making a right arse of yourself with that statement.Thus I reason from your reply, dear Sir, that you just don't know any answers - but felt like lecturing me anyway.
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