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Investor Visa/other ways to work independently in Singapore

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Investor Visa/other ways to work independently in Singapore

Postby Draco » Wed, 06 Feb 2013 5:29 am

Hello,

I am an IT engineer aand I specialize in corporate computer systems and enterprise entity software (the stuff companies like Amazon or eBay run on).
After a long and successful career in the US and Europe I want to elaborate my chances to work in a place like Singapore - as I hope that the health of public finances, the close proximity to the growing markets of Asia and lower taxes, better public safety make for easier living in these parts (compared to the US and most parts of Europe these days).

But, and that is a big BUT, I got absolutely no idea how to go about obtaining the proper visa (what kind?) to work as an independent IT consultant / subcontractor on corporate IT projects.
What kind of upfront investment is required, how long is the wait/processing time for such a visa and how long is it valid?
Do Singapore corporations like to work with independents or do they prefer perm employees?

I do appreciate any informative response.

Thanks in advance

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Postby taxico » Wed, 06 Feb 2013 6:10 pm

have you searched this forum, googled the internet and generally did some fact finding, or is this (and other places you may have posted a similar thread) your first stop?

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Postby Draco » Thu, 07 Feb 2013 4:26 am

taxico wrote:have you searched this forum, googled the internet and generally did some fact finding, or is this (and other places you may have posted a similar thread) your first stop?

Have you nothing useful to say, but feel compelled to say something anyway?
Because otherwise, asking a limited set of straightforward questions, in an expat forum that is supposed to host people with first hand knowledge about the issue at hand, is part and parcel of "fact finding".
So unless you have a URL to post which provides clear cut and reliable answers to my questions, I don't feel playing guessing games with google search results.
I tried that, and all that got me was a bunch of mumbo jumbo + a lot of sex sites offering me Asian brides for cheap.
I know the kind of visas that are available for Singapore, but what I don't know is whether any of them are applicable to my specific line of work - and how easy/difficult they are to obtain in real life.
And what I also don't know is why the heck I have to justify myself asking such a basic question in an expat forum?
If asking some basic questions with regards to the ease or difficulty in obtaining work & residency permits in an expat forum is asking too much, then what use is it anyway?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 07 Feb 2013 6:48 am

We all here generally are working as well as trying to help newbies. As Foreign talent are supposed to be smarter the the rest. We would hope they would use a modicum of effort to locate some of the answers themselves. That's why we have an extremely good search function. All of us are working and contributing our time as well. Most of us will also use the same search facility to locate your answer for you. (or use my links page below) or use the main url where Singapore Expats also has a lot of reference material. Or Google. We love helping those who try to help themselves.

We do not mind searching for obsure answers, but we don't like having to spell out the whole policies that are easily found both here and on the WWW as well. Don't get us wrong, but please don't assume that we are all paid to do this. NONE of us are paid, moderators included. Our time is valuable as well.

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Postby diseq » Thu, 07 Feb 2013 1:09 pm

Draco wrote:I know the kind of visas that are available for Singapore, but what I don't know is whether any of them are applicable to my specific line of work - and how easy/difficult they are to obtain in real life.
And what I also don't know is why the heck I have to justify myself asking such a basic question in an expat forum?
If asking some basic questions with regards to the ease or difficulty in obtaining work & residency permits in an expat forum is asking too much, then what use is it anyway?


Welcome to the forum, stranger. We don't take kindly to people asking basic questions in an expat forum 'round these parts.
Try to search the forum as suggested, but chances are you won't be any wiser after digging up outdated info and half baked replies.
But then again, this is not the best place to ask such questions, in your case. Try IT Contractor forums ( not allowed to post links...)

Some Q&A below. These are not hard cold facts, just my opinion of what works and what doesn't in 2013, after banging my head into the Sg bureaucracy walls for the past year and meeting the people who found a way into the system.

Q:"I got absolutely no idea how to go about obtaining the proper visa (what kind?) to work as an independent IT consultant / subcontractor on corporate IT projects. "

A1: Open a company under the Entrepreneur visa(Entrepass way). Check the gov. site for details. Most IT folks with capital under 1 mil. would say it's not worth it. Do some research, visit Singapore and go to entrepreneur events, you might find out why.

A2: Open a company and get an Employment Pass(EP way) for yourself.Tricky, would be much easier with a local partner.
With your background chances are you'll need the P1. If you've got big contracts already things will be smoother.( Do you? If not getting first the contracts or a firm promise should be considered before setting up shop in Sg)

A3: Get employed(EP) with one the many ManCos around. Obviously it's a trade-off, but you could get the right connections and later take it from there with a setup like A2.


Q:"What kind of upfront investment is required, how long is the wait/processing time for such a visa and how long is it valid?"

A: Mostly covered in A1-A3 above, check the Entrepass and EP (P2, P1) conditions on the gov. website. A few weeks to a few months waiting time. 1-2 year validity (likely 1year, 2 years are becoming an exception). Renewal subject to conditions and election results.

Q: "Do Singapore corporations like to work with independents or do they prefer perm employees?"

A: It's very uncommon for Sg corporations to work with independents. They largely prefer perm employees, but you could circumvent that by going through a ManCo as described in A3. Or create your own (better know what you're doing) , as decribed in A2.
As taxes are low and being a permie comes with perks (proper health insurance etc.), most IT Contractors are ok with perm positions in Singapore instead of the typical 3months-1year contracts they would go for in Europe or US.

Again, this is just my opinion...
Good luck!

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Postby Draco » Thu, 07 Feb 2013 3:00 pm

Welcome to the forum, stranger. We don't take kindly to people asking basic questions in an expat forum 'round these parts.
Try to search the forum as suggested, but chances are you won't be any wiser after digging up outdated info and half baked replies.

You do realize how contradictory your reply is?
First you tell me that you folks don't like to see people trying to get up-to-date info by asking questions, and then you admit that the info one may find by simple text search in old threads (or google) is most likely half-baked and outdated - which is exactly my own experience already.

But then again, this is not the best place to ask such questions, in your case. Try IT Contractor forums.

Believe me. if google would have allowed me to find an IT contractor forum *for Singapore*, I would have gone there.
But besides tons of links to gambling and Asian sex sites, all that google came up with were "expat" forums with a much more commercial interest in "providing advice" (=pay me or buy this before you can ask questions in here).

A1: Open a company under the Entrepreneur visa(Entrepass way). Check the gov. site for details. Most IT folks with capital under 1 mil. would say it's not worth it. Do some research, visit Singapore and go to entrepreneur events, you might find out why.

OK, I was afraid that Entrepass visa was to closely modelled after the US way.
I had hoped to obtain one for roughly US$50k in "funds", but not having to actually spend it all (like in the US), but just depositing it in an SG bank account, then use the money to finance my way through my first year of operation.
Once more, I couldn't find any info if that idea of mine is in any way practicable or recommendable.

A2: Open a company and get an Employment Pass(EP way) for yourself.Tricky, would be much easier with a local partner.
With your background chances are you'll need the P1. If you've got big contracts already things will be smoother.( Do you? If not getting first the contracts or a firm promise should be considered before setting up shop in Sg)

As of now, I only have contracts from European/US companies.
In the US it would be illegal for me to go looking around for work, *before* I got a visa - classical catch 22.
How is that handled in SG?

Get employed(EP) with one the many ManCos around. Obviously it's a trade-off, but you could get the right connections and later take it from there with a setup like A2.

In the US you'd do that mostly via H1b's, which are nothing else but legalized IT slavery permits.
How good/bad is that situation in SG?

A: It's very uncommon for Sg corporations to work with independents. They largely prefer perm employees, but you could circumvent that by going through a ManCo as described in A3. Or create your own (better know what you're doing) , as decribed in A2.
As taxes are low and being a permie comes with perks (proper health insurance etc.), most IT Contractors are ok with perm positions in Singapore instead of the typical 3months-1year contracts they would go for in Europe or US.
Again, this is just my opinion...

First off, that is what I came in for here, "oppinions" based on first hand knowledge from people on-site.
Second, I mostly work as a contractor because
A) I like the independence
B) Taxes for perm employees eat you up alive in Europe and in the US they work you till you drop dead for your meager paycheck

I want to be able to keep enough of my money that I can make a decent upper-middle class living - no fancy yacht or golden toilet seats, but no being stuck with public transportation and discount shopping either.

I am at the agere were I need to pick my battles, so I try to figure out in advance, if my dreams about SG are true or just based on pink pie stories from the local business adventure TV channel.

Since I was looking forward to info like yours, and not flame wars, I won't bother replying to the other posters.
To you dear Sir I say "thanks for useful feedback".

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Postby Draco » Thu, 07 Feb 2013 3:06 pm

We do not mind searching for obsure answers, but we don't like having to spell out the whole policies that are easily found both here and on the WWW as well. Don't get us wrong, but please don't assume that we are all paid to do this. NONE of us are paid, moderators included. Our time is valuable as well.

Dear "moderator", if your time is so "valuable", then why did you waste so much of it lecturing me about how to find info elsewhere, rather than investing it in providing it yourself?

Just yesterday some co-workers of mine asked me about work permits and immigration visa for the US.
Since I did know the answers to their question, I provided it to them - free of charge - rather than lecturing them to take their chances with google.
Thus I reason from your reply, dear Sir, that you just don't know any answers - but felt like lecturing me anyway.

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Postby taxico » Thu, 07 Feb 2013 3:19 pm

Draco wrote:Have you nothing useful to say, but feel compelled to say something anyway?


i asked a question. i can't help how you felt over what i asked... yes, i do feel compelled o say something some times, but in this instance, i shall opt to include:

www.ica.gov.sg

www.business.gov.sg

www.mom.gov.sg

everything you need are at those 3 URLs.

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Postby morenangpinay » Thu, 07 Feb 2013 3:45 pm

it seems you are trying to find a way to work around the system... if you go to the links given...and the other topics already posted you only have those options: entrepass, ep with local director.

You cant work or do any business transactions without the proper visa.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 07 Feb 2013 5:27 pm

Draco,

We have to remember you are "at the agere were I need to pick my battles" whatever agere is. At what age that you attain this? This isn't the place to pick a battle. As they say here....sure to lose.

Our other senior moderator, Strong Eagle, has/had a business for large scale region wide systems as a project salvage team. Sounds like something like you might be into. After 6 or 8 years, he's just packed it in and recently returned to Houston. Maybe he will see your posts here and give you a hand as he speaks your technical language and is the business guru here (e.g., entrepass/pte ltd), although without the whinging. He's still a mod here and weighs in usually in the evening our time.

Thus I reason from your reply, dear Sir, that you just don't know any answers - but felt like lecturing me anyway.


You obviously have done absolutely no research here at all, so I guess we all can have a good chuckle over your making a right arse of yourself with that statement. :lol:

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Postby diseq » Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:55 am

Draco wrote:
But then again, this is not the best place to ask such questions, in your case. Try IT Contractor forums.

Believe me. if google would have allowed me to find an IT contractor forum *for Singapore*, I would have gone there.


There are no IT contractor forums specifically for Singapore, due to the reasons described already. Working as independent/contractor, Europe style, is not officially allowed in Sg. So it's either hush-hush or under the A1-A3 setups already described.

However there are international IT contractor forums with sections for Singapore/SE Asia and they do have practical info and on-the-ground stories. But I can't post links here. Either tap your network or learn some Google-fu.

Draco wrote:OK, I was afraid that Entrepass visa was to closely modelled after the US way.
I had hoped to obtain one for roughly US$50k in "funds", but not having to actually spend it all (like in the US), but just depositing it in an SG bank account, then use the money to finance my way through my first year of operation.
Once more, I couldn't find any info if that idea of mine is in any way practicable or recommendable.


50k funds would be your last problem with the Entrepass - these days, people on the Entrepass with 2mil+ capital are reconsidering their options.
Try hiring 4-8 locals within one year and you 'might' get a renewal.
But first, just for fun, try hiring 1 good local employee. Interviews are a blast and a great culture-shock introduction to running a business in Asia.

Draco wrote:As of now, I only have contracts from European/US companies.
In the US it would be illegal for me to go looking around for work, *before* I got a visa - classical catch 22.
How is that handled in SG?


It's not illegal(grey zone). You can come on a 3-months tourist visa and do interviews, meetings, set up contracts. It only gets dicey when you start getting paid. At that point you should have already A1-A3 set up.

Draco wrote:
Get employed(EP) with one the many ManCos around. Obviously it's a trade-off, but you could get the right connections and later take it from there with a setup like A2.

In the US you'd do that mostly via H1b's, which are nothing else but legalized IT slavery permits. How good/bad is that situation in SG?


It's not bad. Access to important clients, business trips. Often better than a typical perm job. Your experience may vary.

Draco wrote:I am at the age where I need to pick my battles, so I try to figure out in advance, if my dreams about SG are true or just based on pink pie stories from the local business adventure TV channel.

Since I was looking forward to info like yours, and not flame wars, I won't bother replying to the other posters.
To you dear Sir I say "thanks for useful feedback".


You're welcome. It's not pink, it's not brown either. Hard to set up shop but still a great place for business. And like the rest of Asia, Singapore has great energy, which is missing in Europe/US atm.

Perhaps you should pick your forum battles wisely as well... Arguing with the mods, as a newbie... you know what they say, it's like the Special Olympics. Even if you win, it makes you look like a r.

One last advice, take it or leave it. If you come here, remember that this is Asia - diplomacy will get you further than trying to be right and make your point.

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Postby Draco » Fri, 08 Feb 2013 6:55 pm

Dear diseq,

Thanks again for your helpful input.

diseq wrote:
... no IT contractor forums specifically for Singapore, due to the reasons described already. Working as independent/contractor, Europe style, is not officially allowed in Sg. So it's either hush-hush ...

I don't want to do "hush hush" anymore.
I did that in the US for way too long, before I got myself legal (for way too much money).
But I also don't want to end up slaving the day away for a meager paycheck at the end of the month and 2 weeks vacation each year.

diseq wrote:
50k funds would be your last problem with the Entrepass - these days, people on the Entrepass with 2mil+ capital are reconsidering their options.
Try hiring 4-8 locals within one year and you 'might' get a renewal.
But first, just for fun, try hiring 1 good local employee. Interviews are a blast and a great culture-shock introduction to running a business in Asia.

So much for trying to decipher the legal mumbo jumbo of government website on my own ;-)
Because I understood that with a US$50k deposit "in the Bank", one would be allowed to register and operate his own small business in SG.
but I understand from you that the actual investment required for that is 2 million, plus hiring 4+ SG natives on top?

diseq wrote:
It's not illegal(grey zone). You can come on a 3-months tourist visa and do interviews, meetings, set up contracts. It only gets dicey when you start getting paid. At that point you should have already A1-A3 set up.

Now this is important!
Is it legal to work in SG if I do *not* get paid?
Because in the US it isn't - but if I could provide some "free samples" of my work to local clients or potential employers, then it might get me a better chance at landing a top spot job.

diseq wrote:
It's not bad. Access to important clients, business trips. Often better than a typical perm job.

Do you know how often such a temp work visa can be extended (w/o too much hassle!), and if its tied to your employer or to yourself?
Because in the US you can renew your H1b once, then its "bye, bye, home time", and your employer "owns" that visa, not you.
If I could stay & work in SG for at least a decade on a temp work visa, then I'd consider that instead of the Entrepass (US$100K is all I could ever manage to invest in my own biz venture).

You're welcome. It's not pink, it's not brown either. Hard to set up shop but still a great place for business. And like the rest of Asia, Singapore has great energy, which is missing in Europe/US atm.
...
If you come here, remember that this is Asia

Asia is a big place, the biggest of them all - and they are not all alike.
But what I am looking for in SG is not just simple energy, but business spirit.
There is plenty of energy in Europe and the US - but the former wastes it all on social experiments and unsustainable political adventures, while the later is much to preoccupied with fighting a never ending culture war.
When it comes to simply "taking care of business", neither one comes out on top these days.
They can complain about the abysmal human rights record in places like China all they want, but I am fascinated that those people managed to recover from 3 recession spells, just during the last decade, w/o too much trouble.
While neither the US nor Europe managed to fully recover from any of their last downturns.
So I hope to catch a little of that spirit for myself in SG, which I think is close enough to China to "ride the dragon", but also closely enough linked to the West that someone like me should (hopefully) not look too much like an utterly misplaced foreigner all the time.
I am used to working my rear end of 14/6, but on the 7th day I want to rest, as promised in scripture.
And that means I want enough money left after taxes and PC contributions to be able to "enjoy some quality time" at week's end.
I got no problem paying my fair share in taxes, but 48% for government programs I either never use or which I know will be bankrupt by the time I *might* need them, that is not the kind of deal I want for myself.

diseq wrote:
Perhaps you should pick your forum battles wisely as well... Arguing with the mods, as a newbie...

I find it indeed remarkable how much useful info *you* can provide, whilst most other poster(s), who still feel compelled to jump in here, got nothing useful to contribute at all - but seem to be very insistent on starting some sort of flame war instead.
Given that the top flamer is supposed to act as "moderator" in here, I have to acknowledge that he's doing a very poor job when it comes to PR for this forum.
Because if any potential newbie visiting this site finds that the primary response he can expect to his questions will be a spiteful "why didn't you go and google that" or some hastily pasted URLs to some generalist government websites - utterly useless for answering questions requiring specific knowledge about the *on-site* situation - then why bother to register?

I haven't come here to socialize, I'm not that desperate for company that I'd spend my few spare hours each day in cyberspace, huddled over a keyboard under the dim light of a desk lamp.

I came because I needed exactly the kind of info you provided, w/o complaints and w/o spiteful comments.
So if you can do that, you being just a newbie like myself, then maybe that "moderator" should moderate himself first and foremost.
I for one don't plan to stay here any longer than is absolutely necessary for my information gathering quest.

What good is an SG ex-pat website where the mods are so utterly unwilling to let people ask questions related to immigration and worklife in SG?

I've got too much work to squeeze into to little time, to do anything but come straight to the point.
Otherwise I would agree that diplomacy is the better part of valor, but I reserve that for places where I plan to settle down for longer.

Thanks again for your useful input

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 08 Feb 2013 9:14 pm

Draco wrote:Dear diseq,

Thanks again for your helpful input.

diseq wrote:
... no IT contractor forums specifically for Singapore, due to the reasons described already. Working as independent/contractor, Europe style, is not officially allowed in Sg. So it's either hush-hush ...

I don't want to do "hush hush" anymore.
I did that in the US for way too long, before I got myself legal (for way too much money).
But I also don't want to end up slaving the day away for a meager paycheck at the end of the month and 2 weeks vacation each year.

diseq wrote:
50k funds would be your last problem with the Entrepass - these days, people on the Entrepass with 2mil+ capital are reconsidering their options.
Try hiring 4-8 locals within one year and you 'might' get a renewal.
But first, just for fun, try hiring 1 good local employee. Interviews are a blast and a great culture-shock introduction to running a business in Asia.

So much for trying to decipher the legal mumbo jumbo of government website on my own ;-)
Because I understood that with a US$50k deposit "in the Bank", one would be allowed to register and operate his own small business in SG.
but I understand from you that the actual investment required for that is 2 million, plus hiring 4+ SG natives on top?

Read the following sticky thread in this forum. There is a wealth of information on this board if one takes the time to actually look. It's a sticky at the top of the page entitled Question About Entrepass Changes and answers most of your questions in that regard as well as giving you the correct information which is NOT what you just received. (You misunderstood what was actually written).

diseq wrote:
It's not illegal(grey zone). You can come on a 3-months tourist visa and do interviews, meetings, set up contracts. It only gets dicey when you start getting paid. At that point you should have already A1-A3 set up.

Now this is important!
Is it legal to work in SG if I do *not* get paid?
Because in the US it isn't - but if I could provide some "free samples" of my work to local clients or potential employers, then it might get me a better chance at landing a top spot job.

Conducting business and working are too different things. When you are working you are handing somebody a product. If you are a programmer or software specialist, then anything you give in the way of "samples" are produced by hand and therefore a work in progress. e.g., software with limitations that is so popular to download for free and it works in a limited fashion to try to get you to buy. That is considered work and it's verboten. If they are already you clients, then IRAS will deem you working FOR your clients whether you actually get paid not or at some point in the future or even payment is received here or in your home country. It's still working as opposed to conducting business.

diseq wrote:
It's not bad. Access to important clients, business trips. Often better than a typical perm job.

Do you know how often such a temp work visa can be extended (w/o too much hassle!), and if its tied to your employer or to yourself?

There is NO temp work visa for a free-lance consultant. There is a miscellaneous work pass but this is only good for 60 days and limited usage: http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/ ... fault.aspx and is only good for a period of time (60days) and then MOM will say, bye-bye. The Ministry of Manpower has see virtually every ruse there is and they are a pretty smart bunch. Never underestimate them. I have be called the assist them in changing their appeals processes via this board due to the work I do here. In fact. this URL is currently listed & recommended by the MOM three times on the MOM's government website because of the work we do here. They've got you coming and going. See the MOM.gov.sg for the various types of visas. THEN, when you have done that, if you have specific questions feel free to ask. We like helping people who help themselves.

Because in the US you can renew your H1b once, then its "bye, bye, home time", and your employer "owns" that visa, not you.

The only visa you can "own" in Singapore is the PEP. Current requirement are around 10 years experience in your field and a minimum current salary in your home country equivalent to $18,000 SGD/p.m., otherwise forgeddit

See the following link for MOM visa details:

http://www.mom.gov.sg/Pages/default.asp ... LinksPane2

Unfortunately, the PEP is only valid for 3 years and it's a ONE TIME Pass only.


If I could stay & work in SG for at least a decade on a temp work visa, then I'd consider that instead of the Entrepass (US$100K is all I could ever manage to invest in my own biz venture).

You're welcome. It's not pink, it's not brown either. Hard to set up shop but still a great place for business. And like the rest of Asia, Singapore has great energy, which is missing in Europe/US atm.
...
If you come here, remember that this is Asia

Asia is a big place, the biggest of them all - and they are not all alike.
But what I am looking for in SG is not just simple energy, but business spirit.
There is plenty of energy in Europe and the US - but the former wastes it all on social experiments and unsustainable political adventures, while the later is much to preoccupied with fighting a never ending culture war.
When it comes to simply "taking care of business", neither one comes out on top these days.
They can complain about the abysmal human rights record in places like China all they want, but I am fascinated that those people managed to recover from 3 recession spells, just during the last decade, w/o too much trouble.
While neither the US nor Europe managed to fully recover from any of their last downturns.
So I hope to catch a little of that spirit for myself in SG, which I think is close enough to China to "ride the dragon", but also closely enough linked to the West that someone like me should (hopefully) not look too much like an utterly misplaced foreigner all the time.
I am used to working my rear end of 14/6, but on the 7th day I want to rest, as promised in scripture.
And that means I want enough money left after taxes and PC contributions to be able to "enjoy some quality time" at week's end.
I got no problem paying my fair share in taxes, but 48% for government programs I either never use or which I know will be bankrupt by the time I *might* need them, that is not the kind of deal I want for myself.

diseq wrote:
Perhaps you should pick your forum battles wisely as well... Arguing with the mods, as a newbie...

I find it indeed remarkable how much useful info *you* can provide, whilst most other poster(s), who still feel compelled to jump in here, got nothing useful to contribute at all - but seem to be very insistent on starting some sort of flame war instead.
Given that the top flamer is supposed to act as "moderator" in here, I have to acknowledge that he's doing a very poor job when it comes to PR for this forum.

Considering the source of that comment, you can be forgiven. This isn't the USofA. This forum is run the way WE like it. It works, It's the no. 1 rated expat forum in Singapore and has been for quite a while, so we must be doing something right. If you plan on coming to Asia, maybe you might want to change YOUR attitude. as you really don't want to come off looking like a capital "R".

Because if any potential newbie visiting this site finds that the primary response he can expect to his questions will be a spiteful "why didn't you go and google that" or some hastily pasted URLs to some generalist government websites - utterly useless for answering questions requiring specific knowledge about the *on-site* situation - then why bother to register?

You want a babysitter is it?

I haven't come here to socialize, I'm not that desperate for company that I'd spend my few spare hours each day in cyberspace, huddled over a keyboard under the dim light of a desk lamp.

I came because I needed exactly the kind of info you provided, w/o complaints and w/o spiteful comments.
So if you can do that, you being just a newbie like myself, then maybe that "moderator" should moderate himself first and foremost.

That's well, fine and good. Provided you have gotten the correct information from a newbie (which you didn't) or to put it differently, you didn't read carefully and assumed.....

I for one don't plan to stay here any longer than is absolutely necessary for my information gathering quest.

What good is an SG ex-pat website where the mods are so utterly unwilling to let people ask questions related to immigration and worklife in SG?

Singapore only welcomes foreign TALENT. Talent normally has the common sense to try to find their own answers as much as possible and not depend on being spoon fed. Believe me, when you deal with Asians, you will be anything BUT spoon fed and will be expected to deliver on time for less cost without a bunch of sniveling. Welcome to Asia. It's not Europe nor the USofA. I've seen some crybabies but you take the cake.

I've got too much work to squeeze into to little time, to do anything but come straight to the point.

I'll bet you are the only person in the world who is in that situation, right? :roll:

Otherwise I would agree that diplomacy is the better part of valor, but I reserve that for places where I plan to settle down for longer.

Thanks again for your useful input


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Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 10 Feb 2013 6:49 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Draco,

We have to remember you are "at the agere were I need to pick my battles" whatever agere is. At what age that you attain this? This isn't the place to pick a battle. As they say here....sure to lose.

Our other senior moderator, Strong Eagle, has/had a business for large scale region wide systems as a project salvage team. Sounds like something like you might be into. After 6 or 8 years, he's just packed it in and recently returned to Houston. Maybe he will see your posts here and give you a hand as he speaks your technical language and is the business guru here (e.g., entrepass/pte ltd), although without the whinging. He's still a mod here and weighs in usually in the evening our time.

Thus I reason from your reply, dear Sir, that you just don't know any answers - but felt like lecturing me anyway.


You obviously have done absolutely no research here at all, so I guess we all can have a good chuckle over your making a right arse of yourself with that statement. :lol:


Draco,

I am the guy that SMS referred to. I have run a project management/PMO firm specializing in infrastructure rollout/refresh, managed services, and brand rescue. I've done very large projects spanning all countries in Asia.

I think you have no chance of making a go of it in Singapore... or Asia for that matter.

a) Your attitude sucks. Asians would never behave as you have in this thread but they will come back and get you for that kind of behavior. Smile, while pulling the rug from out under you.

On the other hand, the Brits, Ozzies, Kiwis, and Germans can all be rather acerbic and blunt without even knowing it, and with responses like yours, you'll quickly be shown the door. I don't know what your age is but you rather sound like a petulant, self defensive 24 year old. Think about that.

b) You say in all your responses that you've researched all the salient websites and references, yet in your original post you say, "I got absolutely no idea how to go about obtaining the proper visa (what kind?) to work as an independent IT consultant / subcontractor on corporate IT projects". This tells me that you are a shitty researcher; further, that you have not taken the time to contact the ministry of manpower via email or phone to ask your specific questions... because this information is readily available.... here and elsewhere. Then you blow up at those who question your researching capabilities. -1. It all makes me wonder how you will find work here, because...

c) You will find it very hard to find contract employment in Singapore for the kind of consulting work you want to do.

1) You don't have any network here, and the consulting you wish to do is only sold through word of mouth and a level of trust between executives willing to make a recommendation for you. I know project managers with decades of very good experience who tried to get "in" here for more than three years before giving it up.

2) Decisions regarding enterprise infrastructure and software are made in the US, UK, and EU... you know... the headquarters... and the place where you find the global PMO's for MNC's. This includes both specifications and contracting out the work.

The actual work might get done out here but it will be contracted out to contractors who contract it out to code grunts and techs from the subcontinent. You will not be price competitive unless you think S$8,000 per month will get you that lifestyle you yearn for. High paid individuals are very few and far between, especially if you are a tech and not a manager.

3) The nature of corporate IT is rapidly changing and MNC's are shrinking staff, not growing it. The wire coming out of the wall is being treated like a utility... plug in and get get stuff. Thus, service desk and Tier 2 are farmed out. Demand management and design are being centralized into the global PMO's. Programming and maintenance work may be kept in the company but will be centralized in a low cost country (and that's not Singapore). In short, if you have any hope at all, it will be as a contractor to a supplier to a MNC, and they don't pay crap unless there is no choice.

c) If you've read the rules for an Entrepass, you've probably concluded that it isn't for you. It's not the S$50K initial investment that's the kicker, it's the number of Singaporeans you must hire, and the turnover you must achieve. Entrepass is not really suited for the consultant... of any kind.

Yes, some people have formed a private limited, and applied for a work permit (EP) through it. But, they are bringing a successful business, or have contracts, or have contacts. You want to start cold? Maybe you'll get your EP but I'd bet against you with the information you have provided to date.

Summary:

Bad attitude
Rapidly changing MNC IT environment limits opportunities in Asia
No network
Singapore government that has cracked down on "foreign talent"

I really wasn't going to mention it... and... it really grates: I want to elaborate my chances

In this context you are using "elaborate" as a verb, and its definition is: Verb
Develop or present (a theory, policy, or system) in detail.

It really doesn't apply to "chances".

And finally, a short story. When hiring, I make it a point of weeding out people with an attitude like yours. Let's say that I am recruiting for a project manager who will earn S$15K to S$20K per month. They get billed out at even more than that, and the last thing I need is a shithead who pisses off the guy who signs the checks.

I bring them down to Boat Quay for a beer. 30 to 45 minutes after we have sat down, an acquaintance of mine shows up. He is negative, prickly, pushy, prying, usefully useless, even hostile. The whole point is to see how a candidate behaves in an adverse situation. Because there are some real shits out there who sign the checks. You'd fail miserably.

Good luck.

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Postby taxico » Sun, 10 Feb 2013 2:29 pm

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