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O.... M.... total ..... GOD!!!

Postby JR8 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 5:47 am

Bear Grylls - Escape to the Legion Part 1/4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M32WoCBlW_A
--------------------




THIS!!!!!^^^^^^^

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 5:52 am

...and the weird thing.


Yeah.

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Postby taxico » Sat, 02 Feb 2013 2:39 pm

isn't that guy a territorial SBS soldier?

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 03 Feb 2013 1:25 am

taxico wrote:isn't that guy a territorial SBS soldier?


Close.

IIRC he's '2.1', i.e. '2/1 SAS (Territorial)'.


p.s. Same regiment as my Best-Man as it happens.

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Postby taxico » Sun, 03 Feb 2013 4:59 pm

i actually meant to type SAS... and i assume they're more badass than SBS.

when i was in afghanistan, there was a bit of a hooha over their (lack of) training which became evident when the SBS teams were on patrol... and i think the british SAS didn't want anything much to do with SBS.

just hearsay on my part, but some SAS NCOs were quite vocal about it.

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 04 Feb 2013 1:06 am

Well it’s not an area I know a lot about, but I know people who are or were in both regiments (including staying at a friends place (ex-SAS) and having the former C-I-C of the SAS over for dinner (I kid you not :-D)). The SAS get all the publicity because what they do is usually on land and sometimes in the public eye [I’m thinking of the Iranian Embassy siege, London – they were distinctly shadowy before that]. It gains it’s own momentum when people start writing about the regiment [example: ‘Bravo Two Zero’ - Andy McNab] which as you might imagine is strictly verboten.

I would put it down to typical inter-regimental/service rivalry and pride. I say that because these people I know tend to be the most mature, intelligent, humble, and ‘level-headed’ people I know. Slagging of another regiment* is just not in the lexicon.


*That said I have heard a few choice comments about joint-operations with the US Delta Force :)

But I’m sure that was just friendly rivalry, by definition these types are the more competitive of an already competitive bunch. See for example:
Battle of Qala-i-Jangi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Qala-i-Jangi
Which was a joint SAS/SBS/CIA/Delta Force operation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbP5_8XtwBc
A programme made about it, this is part 1/7.

or getting right to the point...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fbb_1283738629
'British SAS in Afghanistan'

Edit to add: More concise link.

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Postby taxico » Mon, 04 Feb 2013 3:04 pm

End your rift, SAS and SBS are told

Aug 1 '04

The head of Britain's Special Forces has ordered the commanders of the SAS and SBS to end a rift that threatens to undermine the elite units.

The Director of Special Forces, an Army brigadier, is said to have been infuriated by a newspaper report in which a former member of the Special Air Service suggested that Special Boat Service troops were incompetent and lacked courage.

The brigadier, who cannot be identified for security reasons, immediately ordered the SAS's base in Hereford to investigate the events which led to the publication of the article and identify those responsible for the allegations.

Senior officers in both organisations were said to have been stunned by the claims, which they described as "malicious lies". The report said that the SBS, which is based at Hamworthy Barracks in Poole, Dorset, faced "substantial restructuring" after intense criticism of its performance in Iraq. Most damningly, it alleged that lack of professionalism within the SBS was such that one serving SAS soldier refused to serve with them on future operations.

It said that although the SBS - which has the motto By Strength and Guile - was highly trained in covert insertion by water, securing beacheads, protecting oil rigs and maritime counter-terrorism, the unit's experience in land-based operations was limited.

Crucially the anonymous SAS member used as the source of the story also claimed that SBS volunteers did not take part in jungle training - the most arduous part of Special Forces selection. In fact, all SAS and SBS volunteers must pass this to join either regiment.

The report added that the SBS's inexperience culminated in a bungled operation in the Iraqi western desert in March 2003 when a 40-man SBS squadron was ambushed by a unit of 300 from the Republican Guard.

It quoted a former member of the SAS as saying: "They [the SBS troops] cocked it up, panicked and did a runner. For the first time they came under effective enemy fire. People were not impressed with their reactions."

The article said that SBS troops failed to return fire and abandoned expensive equipment, including their "Pinky Land Rovers" which were paraded on Iraqi television.

Officially, the SBS refused to comment on the accusations, but The Telegraph has been contacted by former members of the unit and by senior Ministry of Defence officials who have given an alternative account. They have also questioned the accuracy of other claims in the article.

A senior MoD official said: "The Director of Special Forces has made clear to the commanders of both services that accusations of cowardice will not be tolerated and that anyone attempting to discredit either the SAS or SBS - which were both formed in 1941 - only succeeds in discrediting the whole of the Special Forces Group."

A former SBS member said: "The SBS was on an operation to hunt down members of the Fedayeen [Saddam's paramilitary force], but was double-crossed by Iraqi interpreters who were working as spies. They led the SBS unit into an ambush. But far from running, the SBS squadron became engaged in a six-hour fighting withdrawal in which more than 7,000 rounds were fired.

"They suffered only one casualty, who received minor shrapnel wounds, even though they faced a force of 300 Iraqi Republican Guards armed with mortars and heavy machineguns. That contact is now officially recognised as the most ferocious Special Forces engagement of the war. The squadron commander, who was an SAS officer on secondment to the SBS, was sacked because, ultimately, someone must be blamed for the failure."

He went on: "It is galling to read that we are a bunch of incompetent cowards who have never been in action before. The SBS has spent more time on operations in Afghanistan than the SAS. An SBS trooper was awarded the George Medal for rescuing a US crewman from a Hercules transport aircraft which had crashed after refuelling, and two others were awarded the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross for rescuing a CIA agent from Taliban.

"We have been involved in operations around the world including East Timor in 1999 and in Sierra Leone where they made up a third of the Special Forces unit which rescued British hostages in 2000."

The SBS was awarded 24 awards and commendations for its involvement in the Afghanistan war and has so far been awarded 16 for service in Iraq.

The Telegraph can reveal that the soldier who refused to work with the SBS was one of the SAS's most experienced sergeant-majors. He made his forthright comments during a briefing by senior members of the SBS to their SAS counterparts.

A few weeks later, he was attached to the SBS's M squadron for the duration of an operation and later made a full and public apology to the unit, admitting that his comments about the SBS were "out of order" and that he was "speaking rubbish". According to serving and former members of both elite groups an intense but professional rivalry has always existed between them. In recent months, however, there has been a growing sense of irritation within the SBS that many of their operations are reported as being carried out by the SAS.

The SBS, which recently had a new cap badge approved by the Queen, tends to recruit from the Royal Marines, who make up 41 per cent of Britain's Special Forces. The SAS is mainly composed of infantry soldiers. The Director of Special Forces has served as a captain with the SAS and a major with the SBS and has sought to encourage greater "cross-fertilisation" between the two units.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -told.html

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 04 Feb 2013 7:23 pm

Interesting, thanks, I don't remember that spat at the time.

There is so much claim, counter-claim, withdrawal of claim and so on it is hard to know what to conclude. But I don't think it reasonable to accept that the unguarded comment of one ex-trooper establishes and supports such a complex story.


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