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Singapore & US life cost comparison

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vink2
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Postby vink2 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 9:02 am

Thanks guys, clarified a lot.

Sergei82, have you ever been in Australia? It's extremely expensive country. The most expensive in region. That means that Australia is more expensive than Singapore, meaning more expensive than US & Canada & New Zealand. And don't think that everyone there makes 150'000AUD.
Very good (probably, managerial) salary starts from 100'000AUD gross.

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Re: Singapore & US life cost comparison

Postby Wd40 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 9:19 am

vink2 wrote:One US company propose me to move to west cost and for the same salary (after taxes). Just curios, will my life downgrade after if I decide to shift?
Looking at prices here:
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... ted+States

I'm okay to pay 50c more for milk here in Singapore, because I buy it only once a week. What about overall life? Will it be better for the same money?
Also US is far away from the rest of the world and they don't have Thai beaches.
What do you think?


Actually there are lots of aspects to it:

1)Cost of living/quality of life
2)Convenience/hardship
3)long term sustainability
etc
etc

1)If your salary is exact same figure lets say 100k SGD vs 100k USD then I would say, you dont really lose a lot in terms of quality of life and you should still be able to save what you save here, the higher taxes are nullified by lower cost of living and exchange rate differential. Most importantly you have more options and flexibility there in terms of accomodation type etc. Quality of life should again be a lot better in the US than Singapore.

2)Convenience or hardship you are the best judge of your situation, depends on where you are from and what you like vs what you dislike and how often you travel back to your home country.

3)Long term sustainability I would say US definitely has an upper hand. Remember US is where the jobs originate and from there they get outsourced to either China or India depending on whether it is IT or MFG. Singapore's role as an offshore center is going to diminish rapidly from here on, it already is. Also if you are in the upper salary bracket in Singapore already like ~100K SGD, there isnt lot of room to go up unless you become a manager or something. In the US you could remain a consultant and earn much much more than that so lots more job opportunities there.

Singapore is at best a good short term option if you have a good expat package.

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Re: Singapore & US life cost comparison

Postby vink2 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 9:39 am

Wd40 wrote:
vink2 wrote:One US company propose me to move to west cost and for the same salary (after taxes). Just curios, will my life downgrade after if I decide to shift?
Looking at prices here:
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... ted+States

I'm okay to pay 50c more for milk here in Singapore, because I buy it only once a week. What about overall life? Will it be better for the same money?
Also US is far away from the rest of the world and they don't have Thai beaches.
What do you think?


Actually there are lots of aspects to it:

1)Cost of living/quality of life
2)Convenience/hardship
3)long term sustainability
etc
etc

1)If your salary is exact same figure lets say 100k SGD vs 100k USD then I would say, you dont really lose a lot in terms of quality of life and you should still be able to save what you save here, the higher taxes are nullified by lower cost of living and exchange rate differential. Most importantly you have more options and flexibility there in terms of accomodation type etc. Quality of life should again be a lot better in the US than Singapore.

2)Convenience or hardship you are the best judge of your situation, depends on where you are from and what you like vs what you dislike and how often you travel back to your home country.

3)Long term sustainability I would say US definitely has an upper hand. Remember US is where the jobs originate and from there they get outsourced to either China or India depending on whether it is IT or MFG. Singapore's role as an offshore center is going to diminish rapidly from here on, it already is. Also if you are in the upper salary bracket in Singapore already like ~100K SGD, there isnt lot of room to go up unless you become a manager or something. In the US you could remain a consultant and earn much much more than that so lots more job opportunities there.

Singapore is at best a good short term option if you have a good expat package.


Thanks, nice comment. My home in Europe. Europe is closer to US compare to Singapore. It means less time to fly and cheaper air tickets.
One thing may be hard for me in US it is number of leave days US has.
Here in Singapore I have 25 leave days, in US I heard they have ~11 days.

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Re: Singapore & US life cost comparison

Postby JR8 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:51 am

vink2 wrote:Thanks, nice comment. My home in Europe. Europe is closer to US compare to Singapore. It means less time to fly and cheaper air tickets.
One thing may be hard for me in US it is number of leave days US has.
Here in Singapore I have 25 leave days, in US I heard they have ~11 days.



It would be a mistake to think that in America you'd arrived. Just by being there.

You haven't.

You've landed in the land of the free, many of whom happily work 80hrs a week.

Now son, what were you saying about holidays?

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Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 12:19 pm

My opinion as an American who spent most of his life in Chicago and San Francisco Bay Area (two of the priciest spots of the US). Your opinion will likely vary if (no offense) you're from a third world country with a much shittier quality of life than Singapore and are perfectly content to eek out a base existence here:


Yes, you'll have less leave days in the US. Most people I know don't miss it though, think that the number of leave days I get (or our UK friends) is ridiculous.

Taxes in the US are ridiculous compared to Singapore. Everything else is significantly (or even orders of magnitude) less expensive. You could argue in a few prime spots property is close to (Bay Area, CA) or exceeds (Manhattan) the costs in Singapore, but those are the exceptions. The only thing cheaper and better in Singapore than the US is hawker food you can't find there. I truly believe I could be a millionaire selling Martabak Manis in a hipster area of a major city.

The H1b thing above sounds like a crock. Almost any major company can get you an appropriate visa if they have the need at a given time. The stuff the person above mentioned sounds like it would only be (maybe) relevant if you're trying to work through agencies or head hunters that specifically place Indians (or people from countries like that that have such head hunters or agents)

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Re: Singapore & US life cost comparison

Postby vink2 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 12:41 pm

JR8 wrote:
vink2 wrote:Thanks, nice comment. My home in Europe. Europe is closer to US compare to Singapore. It means less time to fly and cheaper air tickets.
One thing may be hard for me in US it is number of leave days US has.
Here in Singapore I have 25 leave days, in US I heard they have ~11 days.



It would be a mistake to think that in America you'd arrived. Just by being there.

You haven't.

You've landed in the land of the free, many of whom happily work 80hrs a week.

Now son, what were you saying about holidays?



Well, I'm not going to arrive to US. I want to work and live there for ~2 years.
I don't need US or Singapore, my home country is the best, anyway.


The H1b thing above sounds like a crock. Almost any major company can get you an appropriate visa if they have the need at a given time. The stuff the person above mentioned sounds like it would only be (maybe) relevant if you're trying to work through agencies or head hunters that specifically place Indians (or people from countries like that that have such head hunters or agents)


Only illegally. Facebook, Google, Amazon, etc. all these companies apply for H1b.


My opinion as an American who spent most of his life in Chicago and San Francisco Bay Area (two of the priciest spots of the US). Your opinion will likely vary if (no offense) you're from a third world country with a much shittier quality of life than Singapore and are perfectly content to eek out a base existence here:


Of course no offense. Any European country is better than Singapore (any among ~55). Some countries may have lower GDP, but prices are also much lower and healthcare & education across all Europe almost free.
Some countries are extremely rich, for example, Scandinavian.
The problem that many Singaporeans doesn't understand GDP formula, that is why they think that they are very rich. It is very easy to have high GDP if you have high prices.
In Europe we don't feel ourselves as credit slaves. We don't have many people there and we have lots of space. We are socially secured. Always! And the problem with 2-3 eurozone countries (Greece, Spain etc.) out of 55 have not a big deal, not a big deal at all. Those countries have very good infrastructure, and Greece, especially, very beautiful islands, and, yeap, they have advanced economy.

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 2:21 pm

zzm9980 wrote: Your opinion will likely vary if (no offense) you're from a third world country with a much shittier quality of life than Singapore and are perfectly content to eek out a base existence here:


Quality of life in itself is a very bad metric to judge a place. Agreed that Singapore gets high quality of life scores, but an important factor that most surveys ignore is the cost of that quality of life.

In Singapore, if you are high flying expat then yes you will enjoy but if you are from the middle class then the quality of life is shittier than in a third world country.

In Bangalore a software engineer will have a better quality of life than in Singapore, whichever way you look at it. :-|

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 2:47 pm

Big difference between getting gridlocked in the city, surrounded by new cars and in air conditioned comfort in Singapore than say in an open window bus in Chennai though, wouldn't you say? :P

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 3:39 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Big difference between getting gridlocked in the city, surrounded by new cars and in air conditioned comfort in Singapore than say in an open window bus in Chennai though, wouldn't you say? :P


No, if you are middle class in Chennai you will be driving a car in an even thicker gridlock. In Singapore, you will be sandwiched in a sardine can :)

Also in Chennai when you get home you will park your car in the garage of your landed house(a dream that will always remain one for a Singaporean middle class) or if you have too many cars you will park it outside. In Singapore you walk half a mile underground from your office to get to a sardine can and then after getting out of the sardine can you walk another half a mile to the interchange and then stand in a long queue for the bus and after getting from the bus again walk to your lift and if by bad luck your hdb is not lift level you walk up 3 stories or walk down 1 floor. Yes this it! the quality of life :lol:
Last edited by Wd40 on Sat, 26 Jan 2013 3:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby vink2 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 3:48 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Big difference between getting gridlocked in the city, surrounded by new cars and in air conditioned comfort in Singapore than say in an open window bus in Chennai though, wouldn't you say? :P


If I need to face only 3 options: retire in Singapore, in Malaysia or in Thailand.
I will choose Malaysia (1st preference) or Thailand (2nd preference), anyway.
But these countries are still considered as developing.

Anyway, I know lots of Singaporeans, and know how they live.
They do not have the same luxury life as I have. I don't afraid to be slashed, I don't afraid for tomorrow, I don't need to work hard, I don't need to buy HDB or condo for 400'000 - 500'000SGD and pay for it till the rest of my life.

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Postby vink2 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 4:19 pm

Also one thing I don't like about US employment is termination.
I heard that it is normal to terminate a person just within an hour, just because he is not needed anymore.
Read this docs, for example:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/23/39063 ... -hire-case

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 4:25 pm

vink2 wrote:Also one thing I don't like about US employment is termination.
I heard that it is normal to terminate a person just within an hour, just because he is not needed anymore.
Read this docs, for example:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/23/39063 ... -hire-case


Actually termination is normal even in Asia. Its only Europe and Australia, where they need to follow some procedures before terminating someone.

An interesting thing happened yesterday. I got a call from a very small company for an interview. I wanted to do some research on the company and I found some negative news about it in the link below:

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/queenstown-la ... er-sacking

Although this sort of thing is very normal in US, India or Singapore. But I guess it isnt so in EU, AU and NZ. Needless to say, after reading that article I politely declined from interviewing with the company.

Its amazing how a small event like that can cause so much harm to a company's reputation in this internet world

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Postby vink2 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 4:29 pm

Wd40 wrote:
Actually termination is normal even in Asia. Its only Europe and Australia, where they need to follow some procedures before terminating someone.


Unless you work for European company in Asia and your manager is European.
Europeans culture is to take care about each other and give a second, third, etc. chance.
That is why I think Europe is the best place to live and retire. Because you will never feel that someone used you.

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Postby Brah » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 6:30 pm

I wonder if this is still the case to the former degree in Europe. I hope so. And I agree, everywhere else should follow suit, though it won't.

Australia and Japan have the best employee-centric laws in this part of the world, but even Japan has changing to be less so over the past 6-8 years.
vink2 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Actually termination is normal even in Asia. Its only Europe and Australia, where they need to follow some procedures before terminating someone.

Unless you work for European company in Asia and your manager is European.
Europeans culture is to take care about each other and give a second, third, etc. chance.
That is why I think Europe is the best place to live and retire. Because you will never feel that someone used you.

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 26 Jan 2013 8:40 pm

vink2 wrote:Unless you work for European company in Asia and your manager is European.
Europeans culture is to take care about each other and give a second, third, etc. chance.
That is why I think Europe is the best place to live and retire. Because you will never feel that someone used you.



Rubbish. This is like Barrossa's wet dream.

Europe is like a pretentious old communist tosser. The self-anointed rulers sit in their palaces and ordain that no one must work for more than 40 hours a week. 'So that there will be work for everyone, not only the motivated few'.

Their fatal error - but what do they care, they are rewarded for posturing, rather than results - is to presume the pie is of a fixed size. Of course the pie is of a dynamic size, and people being people, some will want 'their bite' for nil return.

Why do you think the first thing Europeans with any gumption do, is leave it.

p.s. Your mindset is rather 'Uzindiastan', with rose-tinted spectacles on.


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