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SG targets population growth to 7 mln: DBS Vickers

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Brah
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Postby Brah » Mon, 21 Jan 2013 4:18 pm

One questions is how many of those buying here are living here.

I would think there are far more renters, and if the prices remain less will come / stay.

Sergei82 wrote:I suppose, additional 2 mln of foreigners will be wealthy enough to afford buying property here. :)

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Mon, 21 Jan 2013 4:25 pm

Sergei, I don't live in Seoul just as i don't live in Bangkok, Jakarta, Shanghai or Delhi. If this place turns into 'just another overcrowded city' albeit also an exceedingly expensive one, its advantages are all gone, and I will be long gone. I probably wouldn't be the only one and your only questions are, who will be our replacment , who/what replaces companies we have here and what will they be doing?


wwww wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:7m people is already a big problem in Hong Kong and when we factor in the difference in physical size....... Singapore wouldn't be a place I want to live if EVER it were to become a reality.

Very hopefully by then, I'll be dead and burnt to a crisp!


With the massive housing oversupply hitting the market in the next few years I am not too worried. However, MRT rides will become a very "cozy" experience, especially in the NEL which is serving PAP's latest boom town Punggol. :o



Focusing on just 'Housing' is quite blinkered. Road transport is already nearing gridlock. Nearly a hour and a half to get to the airport from Jln Anak Bukit is already bad enough (twice, on different days for me last week) without making it worse. As i sat in the 'Massive Jam' indicated by LTA last week I wondered at the thousands of economic dollars just evaporating right there and then.

Current MRT stations and trains cannot be extended/lengthened so it is already stop-start-stop in the tunnels and between stations. New lines just announced will probably open in time for my retirement.

Should we place bets on how many of the new buses coming to SG this year and next will be double decker and how many will just be the single desk ones? From new ones I've seen, it appears an even split and I don't really understand why small buses are still being bought in light of their lifespan and government 'targets.'

Local schools are virtually full and there are lengthy waiting lists at international ones.

How long do you have to wait to be seen by a doctor or GP, or get seen at a hospital. It's a long time, by the way.

Flooding all over the island because the system already can't cope.



Setting a target is one thing and if it to get 7m people then that's fine and not up to me but there has to be a consequence and a carefully structured path to get there. As I said, with 7m people, Singapore just turns into another anonymous overcrowded (and expensive) city.
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'

SIR Stirling Moss OBE

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Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 21 Jan 2013 4:27 pm

ProvenPracticalFlexible wrote:The 2012 numbers are there behind the link if you bothered to look , I can copy them here too:
2012 5,312.4 3,818.2
from there, a quick projection 2013 5,400.0 3.845.0

As I see, 2003 actually experienced population drop, it recovered only in 2005. Is it related to property bubble burst? :)
Should we expect something like that any time soon? Nowadays the bubble looks bigger.

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Postby ProvenPracticalFlexible » Mon, 21 Jan 2013 4:35 pm

Sergei82 wrote:
ProvenPracticalFlexible wrote:The 2012 numbers are there behind the link if you bothered to look , I can copy them here too:
2012 5,312.4 3,818.2
from there, a quick projection 2013 5,400.0 3.845.0

As I see, 2003 actually experienced population drop, it recovered only in 2005. Is it related to property bubble burst? :)
Should we expect something like that any time soon? Nowadays the bubble looks bigger.


It's all about economy in Singapore in the end. But I'd link the 2003 drop to the SARS outbreak and its impact to economy and willingness to travel.

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 21 Jan 2013 7:51 pm

I wonder why they want to expand the population so much, where is the virtue in it?

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Postby offshoreoildude » Mon, 21 Jan 2013 8:11 pm

JR8 wrote:I wonder why they want to expand the population so much, where is the virtue in it?


Growth in GDP - the PAP ministers salary is coupled to it (with some caveats and elasticity), With less cynicism I'd say it's the only formula they trust.
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Postby JR8 » Tue, 22 Jan 2013 12:07 am

offshoreoildude wrote:
JR8 wrote:I wonder why they want to expand the population so much, where is the virtue in it?


Growth in GDP - the PAP ministers salary is coupled to it (with some caveats and elasticity), With less cynicism I'd say it's the only formula they trust.


Taking what you say at face value (I have no idea) you would have thought per capita GDP would be a more precise indicator of 'adding-value', to both the population and economy.

Total GDP would not appear to reflect the cost side of the increased population.

p.s. One could argue for a more elastic and holistic economic measure. An economic 'well-being' index. The additional burden on services will come at a cost after all; building new MRT lines etc doesn't come cheap.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Tue, 22 Jan 2013 9:02 am

JR8 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
JR8 wrote:I wonder why they want to expand the population so much, where is the virtue in it?


Growth in GDP - the PAP ministers salary is coupled to it (with some caveats and elasticity), With less cynicism I'd say it's the only formula they trust.


Taking what you say at face value (I have no idea) you would have thought per capita GDP would be a more precise indicator of 'adding-value', to both the population and economy.

Total GDP would not appear to reflect the cost side of the increased population.

p.s. One could argue for a more elastic and holistic economic measure. An economic 'well-being' index. The additional burden on services will come at a cost after all; building new MRT lines etc doesn't come cheap.


I thought you were in tune with Singapore? This precise issue was a real hot issue in the last GE. They have tweaked the ministers pay and bonus but TOTAL GDP is still used as one of the factors in the bonus calculations of the ministers (you know - all those guys like GCT whose children are overseas and who has often talked in glowing terms about Switzerland).
Now I'm called PNGMK

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 22 Jan 2013 9:30 am

JR8 wrote:I wonder why they want to expand the population so much, where is the virtue in it?


Man, what's wrong with these people. Total population, total GDP...not worth squat to the man of the street if his quality of life doesn't match what's being reported.

:x

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:14 am

nakatago wrote:
JR8 wrote:I wonder why they want to expand the population so much, where is the virtue in it?


Man, what's wrong with these people. Total population, total GDP...not worth squat to the man of the street if his quality of life doesn't match what's being reported.

:x



Actually, it's worse than that.....

We are at a time when more business is being automated and efficiency has to be driven up. We have had ministers and the press admit via surveys that Singapore has one of the lowest efficiency rates in the world, requiring far more people to do the same amount of work as other countries.

The minister (I think) highlighted the difference between a restaurant in SG and one in HK, where the staff over there are able to work more tables, know the product (menu) much better and work in a more coordinated manner hence a need for fewer staff. It is true, Singapore needs to improve efficiency and not tackle workload the same way a third world country does, throw people at it.

Combine efficiency and the on going trend for automation in many industries or services and we have to ask a simple question, what are the extra 2m people going to do??

You only have to look at some Western economies to see that eventhough more people are out of work, the amount being done isn't so much lower than it used to be despite the problems. It is better to do have more work completed by the people already available first, BEFORE thinking about increasing the size of the workforce.
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'



SIR Stirling Moss OBE

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Postby Sergei82 » Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:20 am

But somebody needs to drive up property prices, isn't it? And MRT shares as well.
The escape path for cashed-in Singaporeans from the upcoming hell may be becoming increasingly popular Switzerland. :)

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 22 Jan 2013 10:43 am

Sergei82 wrote:But somebody needs to drive up property prices, isn't it? And MRT shares as well.
The escape path for cashed-in Singaporeans from the upcoming hell may be becoming increasingly popular Switzerland. :)


Singapore - the ultimate bubble? :cool:

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Postby morenangpinay » Tue, 22 Jan 2013 11:56 am

here are my suggestions for increasing the local population
1) Declare one day every week as a sex holiday
2) Include sex breaks during office hours in the employment act
3) establish a free center for sex where you have to queue and ensure you have a sign for freebies outside.
4) get the A star, nus, nanyang etc. to research on favorable sex positions which is a sure way to get pregnant.
5) take away all their television, tablets, computers, dvd, and all forms of entertainment.
6) lock them up in their homes until they get pregnant

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 22 Jan 2013 12:44 pm

There is a better way that I've espoused here before. Make women does a modified form of National Service. e.g, NS men do 21~24 months of active duties and then reservist training annually till they are 40, for all intents and purposes, 22 years of military duties.

Therefore, to kill a couple of birds with a single stone, I would propose the following changes to the constitution....

Women would be required to marry at the age of 20 or 21 years of age and would be required to have two pregnancies in a period of 24 months. (for which they would be paid just like NS men) This would stop the men whining about how the women where getting ahead of them in this patriarchal society. Additionally, it would bring up the total fertility rate to just under 2.0 (must allow for still born/miscarriages/other deaths/accidents) thereby ensuring future cannon fodder for the military and worker drones in the factories. A pregnancy is 9 months, give or take. add 5 or 6 months between pregnancies and voila, 24 months of Active Service to the nation. The remaining 20 years? NS reservists, for which they would also be paid a stipend as are paid to NS men. At the age of 40 the kids are old enough to start their own cycle.

This removes the corporate ladder whinge of the guys, solves the low fertility rate, ensure manpower for industry and manpower for the military. Of course the following would be need to be enacted to push the program to the needed conclusion.

Flats could NOT be purchased until at least the 1st child was born and would only be allowed to by a 3 room flat. They would not be allowed to purchase resale flats or larger flats or private housing until such time as the second child came along. Thereby ensuring equitable distribution of housing. Singles would not be allowed to purchase ANY property in Singapore regardless of whether subsidized or private or resale. If they want to remain selfish and not give back to the country then they can immigrate or pay outrageous rental costs or live with their parents.

If Israel can have NS for ALL so can Singapore. But we won't make the women carry weapons (well, they WILL be carrying future weapons carriers though.)

And, as bonuses and freebies are given to NS mean periodically, the same would be done for women as well. Having more than 2 children could result in additional subsidies for housing or educational grants or some other forum of additional compensation for going above and beyond the call of duty. :wink: :cool:
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Thu, 05 Sep 2013 8:22 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Tue, 22 Jan 2013 12:56 pm

Fidel...... it's you!
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'



SIR Stirling Moss OBE


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