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Parent prohibited from entering Singapore.

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believeinmiracle
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Parent prohibited from entering Singapore.

Postby believeinmiracle » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 7:45 pm

Hello all,

My problem:
Mother was prohibited to enter Singapore for crime she did. I am as his son, could not get neither student pass nor S-PASS in Singapore.

Here is my situation,

My parent was prohibited to enter Singapore for some reasons which until now I am sure not about the details. All I know is that, she was ever arrested by police in Singapore and had to stay 1 week or so in Singapore jail. Since then, she is not allowed to enter Singapore until now.

In 2009 (I was 20 years old then), I was oblivious about my mother situation. So, I made a decision to further my study in one of the private college university in Singapore. I was accepted by the college, but my student pass was rejected. Asking one of my tuition teacher (who is also a education agent) for help, checking why my student pass was rejected even after re-appealing. The ICA officer said it is Private and Confidential issue.

For some reason, my tuition teacher asked me to call my mother to come to Singapore (because my tuition teacher thought I was still under 21 years old and I needed parents/guardians consent). So, my mother flew to Changi airport. I went to Changi to pick her up but she was being detained for one night and she needed to fly back to where she was.

(STILL UNAWARE OF WHAT IS GOING ON)

Later i found out about my mother situation (that she was ever arrested and was prohibited to enter Singapore)

(The reason why she still insisted on flying to Changi Airport even thought she knew she was prohibited to enter Singapore was because:
1. I insisted that she had to come to Singapore.
2. She wanted to keep the "secret" from me.
3. She thought that, it happened years ago, should not be a problem.)


I am currently 24 years old, looking for job in Singapore (with the thought that I am independence from my parents consent, I am free from my parent's problem)

After going through stages of interview, finally i got my job offer with 3k basic salary. The ex-prospective employer tried to apply for S-PASS for me. But yet again, MOM rejected the application.

HR from my ex-prospective employer made a few calls to the MOM. But their responses was like: "Do not bother to appeal, the pass won't be granted"

Suspect about the officers responses, the HR asked me about the rejection matter, so I explained to the HR about my situation (Student pass rejected, etc)

I was then sent a letter of withdrawal of employment.


So, my questions are:
1. Is it possible for me to work in SG?
2. What should I do ( who should I contact, what should I prepare, I need advices)
3. Is there any expiry (or specific period on how long Singapore Government keep the criminal record)?




Additional that might be useful:
1. I am not prohibited to enter Singapore. I can enter Singapore freely with Social Visit Visa. (Never have any problem in Singapore)

2. I am single and I don't think I will bring anyone of my family (Parents or future spouse and children). As I am aware they probably think that I would someday make use of my S-PASS or E-PASS to bring in my "prohibited mother" into Singapore.

3. The S-PASS rejection case was happened recently (early Jan 2013). I am not sure the exact year my mother was being detained in Singapore, but it was about 10 years ago.

I am kinda upset with the situation I am in now. But then I read a thread in this forum, where someone who is prohibited to enter Singapore managed to enter Singapore again (legally). So I thought there might be a chance for me as well to get a PASS in Singapore. I really hope that I can work in Singapore.

God bless.

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Postby bro75 » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 8:23 pm

To better answer your question, can we ask what is your highest educational attainment and years of experience in the field that you are applying? Spass approval is based on many things but I believe these 2 factors have the most weight (salary is also important but the 3k offer should be enough for an spass). I do not think that your mother's situation is a factor in your rejection but I could be wrong.

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Postby believeinmiracle » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 8:31 pm

I am bachelor degree in Computing specialized in Computer Security. It was 3 years study. (Full-time study). I was just graduated in the late of 2012, and I have no working experience yet.

I would be really glad if it is not my mother's situation that caused the MOM rejected my S-PASS. But the HR from my ex-prospective employer said it was their first time to have their application for being rejected. So i thought to myself, maybe it is related to that case, and maybe ICA is the one, behind this rejection.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 8:48 pm

Two things might be triggering the rejection.

Firstly, and probably the most likely is the fact that you are a new graduate with no experience. They got plenty of them here with citizenship therefore, the company would have a hard time justifying WHY they needed to hire a fresh grad without any experience. I'd have to ask the same question as well, I'm afraid.

Secondly, and also a distinct possibility is the fact that you stated that your Student Pass was also rejected and upon appeal the ICA officer stated it was Private and Confidential Issue so it could have been for most anything.

Without knowing What you mother was incarcerated for there is no way any of us can hazard a guess if it had any bearing on the rejections.

So, if it were the first example, you are out of luck until such time as you have experience and not just theory. To get a job in Sillypore today you really need to be bringing something to the negotiating table or you can forget it.

If it's still something to do with the second, you have a double whammy to contend with, that problem and the fact that you have nothing concrete to offer at the table either. No track record/experience. Just a piece of paper that says you know how to take tests by cramming the week before the exams. (your words against theirs - they all know how Sillyporeans get their degrees.)

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Postby believeinmiracle » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 9:14 pm

@sundaymorningstaple

Regarding the fact that I don't have any experience for the job, I have a professional certification in IT Security which I have just taken recently. And I had first class honours degree ( if that helps)

With First Class Honour degree + Certified Ethical Hacker (CEH) certification, I think it would give me an advantage in getting the pass.

So, I am afraid that, the reason behind the rejection is really "my mother's situation".

Anyway, fyi, I have not made any contact with MOM/ICA yet. But yet again, according to the HR from ex-prospective employer, my case was their first time rejection case ever, after so many years of applying s-pass or e-pass for other foreign employees in the company. And the HR had also called to the 3 different MOM officers. And the response the HR receive is "NO CASE" and don't bother to try to appeal (NO CASE means it is impossible that you will get that pass).

I thought to myself that, the HR might be a PRO in this field, so I am sure that the HR had tried every effort trying to explain to the MOM why I am worth to be hired.

If you think I will need to call them myself, what do you think that I should ask them, so I won't get "Private and Confidential" answers from them.
Your advice will be appreciated.

As for finding out what my mother case was, I am trying to dig it out from my older siblings who might know about the case. I will post it here, once I get the update.

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 9:32 pm

believeinmiracle wrote:With First Class Honour degree + Certified Ethical Hacker (CEH) certification, I think it would give me an advantage in getting the pass.


No, your CEH won't help. A CISSP might bear a bit of weight with MOM, but not with most hiring managers. (I say that as a hiring manager of InfoSec for the past 3 years). CEH is also worthless without experience to back it up. For me at least, it wouldn't even have to be work experience, but if all you have is schooling, book study, and that CEH, it's worthless as you probably couldn't hack your way through a wet paper bag. :)

Sorry to go offtopic there.

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Postby believeinmiracle » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 10:32 pm

zzm9980

I understand that, in InfoSec world, with schooling and book-study are not enough. But I am not sure if by saying that, you're also saying that there is no way a fresh grad in InfoSec could get a S-PASS or even a job.

But anyway, would it explain why the HR emphasized on what the MOM officer said "NO CASE" and "Do not bother to appeal", just because i am incompetent ?

Fyi, with those qualifications that I have, I applied for the IT administrator position. And I have skills which I believe would be sufficient for me to do that job and meet the company expectation. And even if you think, that is not enough, I still don't understand why the MOM officer stated those two lines which is again, according to the HR it is the first time happened to them.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your view. I really hope that the reason behind the rejection is qualification.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:21 pm

For someone with a degree, you sure are thick. I'm an HR Manager with 20 years experience here in Singapore, both as a headhunter and a medium to large SME's HR & Finance Manager. ZZM is a hiring manager in the field you are trying to enter. What we are both saying is that paper qualifications, in today's Singapore, will possibly get you an interview with a company, but it will not get you past MOM under the new criteria that is changing (getting more stringent) with every quarter. The Ruling party lost a lot of votes in the last General Election because the have brought in too many foreigners. They will most assuredly be votes out of power if the don't reduce the intake of foreigners. Therefore they are tightening up both the criteria and the bits they've always "allowed".

You are going to need a lot more than a miracle. You have NO useable attributes except a piece of paper that says theoretically you can possibly do a job and a shady history with the Singapore Government of which you don't seem to know much about or are not talking, as the case may be. If they have told you NO CASE. The best thing you can do is go home as they have already shut down any and all avenues a redress. Being pushy here will only cause them to dig in their heels easier and could get you ejected from the country (or at least not even be allowed to extend your SVP).

It sucks, I know. But The Little Red dot's citizens are up in arms and expats are the ones who are going to suffer. Both those of us who have been here for a while and those trying to come here. The infrastructure is just about to burst at the seams so they are thinning ranks.

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Postby believeinmiracle » Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:08 am

@sundaymorningstaple
I am sorry for being over-confident with the qualification that I have.

I am so desperate right now. All that I want to find out about is whether or not the rejection related to the case. If it is related, then I would like to try to fix it. I am just worry about the future. :(

Could you please give me an advice if there anything I can find out why they rejected my application?

I really don't know the details about the case at all. I really want to know too. Could you also advise me on what should I do or who should I talk to regarding the case?

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Postby Mi Amigo » Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:46 am

What we are trying to tell you is that, on the evidence you've presented, there is virtually no chance of you securing an S-pass. If you read around this forum, you'll see that the MOM generally don't give reasons for rejections, or take kindly to being pushed to discuss their decisions.

The fact that your prospective employer was told "Do not bother to appeal, the pass won't be granted" is quite conclusive, wouldn't you agree? If they've made their mind up, it doesn't really matter whether the reason is related to your mother or your lack of experience - it could be either or a combination of the two.

In all honesty, your best bet would be to look for opportunities to build up experience elsewhere. Then when you have a few years under your belt, you can come back and try again if you really want to, but by then you might have already found something decent in another place.

Please understand - we're not trying to be nasty, just giving our honest opinions about your situation. One of the features of this forum is that we don't 'blow smoke' - not everyone appreciates that, but we try to present the information we have (which even at the best of times can never be guaranteed 100% correct) in as straight and candid a way as we can.

Good luck.
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby believeinmiracle » Fri, 18 Jan 2013 5:49 am

Guys
I really appreciate your time you spend for reading this thread and giving me your advices and opinions.

I am not trying to secure any pass here.
I am not trying to tell everyone in here that I have qualifications that MOM has no reason to reject my application.
(If it sounded that way to you, I apologize)
I am just trying to elaborate my situation.

I am here with a hope that there will be someone in here that could help me with advices of what steps that I should take in order for me to fix this situation.

I have faced two cases which I think they might be related to my mother case. Which is why I really want to know whether or not my mother case that caused ICA/MOM rejected my application. And if it is related, is it still possible for me to fix it?

I understand that as @Mi Amigo mentioned that "MOM generally don't give reasons for rejections, or take kindly to being pushed to discuss their decisions. "
So it will be almost impossible for me to find out their reasons for rejection. But I still believe there must be a way. Probably, by asking what are the privileges a child might lost if the parent has ever been jailed in Singapore. Probably, the child will lose the privilege to get the pass.

Maybe it does not mean anything to you, to have your pass rejected without knowing the reason. But if someday I really have no choice but to come back and try again, maybe for me or for my children who want to work in Singapore in the future? Do I have to do the bet again? To guess whether or not the pass will approved. And what will be the reason if the application will be rejected again.

Till now, I still haven't found any clue yet about how long the prohibition to enter to Singapore, and the details of what caused my mother to be jailed in Singapore.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 18 Jan 2013 7:05 am

Where were you when all this was going on with your mother? If it happened 10 years ago, were you here with her? If not, then it's doubtful that your mother's problems are the cause of your current problems, but if you were here as well an it was an immigration problem, it might explain a lot, but otherwise, all the signs point to a pure lack of experience scenario like '000's of others here.

But, short of having a crystal ball, I don't think there is much you can do about it as immigration officers around the world generally will not divulge the reasons for rejections as when they start doing that, they start getting "tailor made" applications.

If you are allowed to come here on a social visit pass (SVP), then I'm pretty sure it has absolutely nothing to do with your mother's problems.

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Re: Need Help: Parent prohibited from entering Singapore.

Postby the lynx » Fri, 18 Jan 2013 9:53 am

believeinmiracle wrote:Hello all,

My problem:
Mother was prohibited to enter Singapore for crime she did. I am as his son, could not get neither student pass nor S-PASS in Singapore.

Here is my situation,

My parent was prohibited to enter Singapore for some reasons which until now I am sure not about the details. All I know is that, she was ever arrested by police in Singapore and had to stay 1 week or so in Singapore jail. Since then, she is not allowed to enter Singapore until now.

In 2009 (I was 20 years old then), I was oblivious about my mother situation. So, I made a decision to further my study in one of the private college university in Singapore. I was accepted by the college, but my student pass was rejected. Asking one of my tuition teacher (who is also a education agent) for help, checking why my student pass was rejected even after re-appealing. The ICA officer said it is Private and Confidential issue.

For some reason, my tuition teacher asked me to call my mother to come to Singapore (because my tuition teacher thought I was still under 21 years old and I needed parents/guardians consent). So, my mother flew to Changi airport. I went to Changi to pick her up but she was being detained for one night and she needed to fly back to where she was.

(STILL UNAWARE OF WHAT IS GOING ON)

Later i found out about my mother situation (that she was ever arrested and was prohibited to enter Singapore)

(The reason why she still insisted on flying to Changi Airport even thought she knew she was prohibited to enter Singapore was because:
1. I insisted that she had to come to Singapore.
2. She wanted to keep the "secret" from me.
3. She thought that, it happened years ago, should not be a problem.)


I am currently 24 years old, looking for job in Singapore (with the thought that I am independence from my parents consent, I am free from my parent's problem)

After going through stages of interview, finally i got my job offer with 3k basic salary. The ex-prospective employer tried to apply for S-PASS for me. But yet again, MOM rejected the application.

HR from my ex-prospective employer made a few calls to the MOM. But their responses was like: "Do not bother to appeal, the pass won't be granted"

Suspect about the officers responses, the HR asked me about the rejection matter, so I explained to the HR about my situation (Student pass rejected, etc)

I was then sent a letter of withdrawal of employment.


So, my questions are:
1. Is it possible for me to work in SG?
2. What should I do ( who should I contact, what should I prepare, I need advices)
3. Is there any expiry (or specific period on how long Singapore Government keep the criminal record)?




Additional that might be useful:
1. I am not prohibited to enter Singapore. I can enter Singapore freely with Social Visit Visa. (Never have any problem in Singapore)

2. I am single and I don't think I will bring anyone of my family (Parents or future spouse and children). As I am aware they probably think that I would someday make use of my S-PASS or E-PASS to bring in my "prohibited mother" into Singapore.

3. The S-PASS rejection case was happened recently (early Jan 2013). I am not sure the exact year my mother was being detained in Singapore, but it was about 10 years ago.

I am kinda upset with the situation I am in now. But then I read a thread in this forum, where someone who is prohibited to enter Singapore managed to enter Singapore again (legally). So I thought there might be a chance for me as well to get a PASS in Singapore. I really hope that I can work in Singapore.

God bless.


Sorry to hear about that but I have to agree with SMS on his last point that your ability to enter Singapore on SVP negates any connection to your mom's history. Very highly likely your lack of experience is the factor (I am not from information security field so I take zzm's words).

Let's talk about your mother. If you are genuinely concerned on how her incarceration affects her immigration status in Singapore (like trying to visit you, or as a tourist), this thread by a former 'banned' visitor will shed a light on your mother's recourse (I'm now steering the topic away from your qualifications since it has been answered in full).

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic87255.html

On different note, you should take this opportunity to prove yourself by creating a job profile with work experience. Once you have years and career achievements under your belt, you can try again :)

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Postby believeinmiracle » Fri, 18 Jan 2013 3:22 pm

@SMS
I was not with her when all that was going on. I was in my country.

@SMS & lynx
I have just called the HR to clarify how bad was the officers response.
It seemed that it was not about the qualifications, experience, salary or anything some sort of that, that the MOM rejected my application. It seemed to be a serious problem which they say it is Private and Confidential, and which I think it's my mother case.

OK let's put it this way.
let's say it is my mother case that caused the rejection. and let's say my mother did a serious crime (not just a petty crime)?
what do you think I should do?
I am afraid that if I take the wrong action, it would make the situation worse. The worst is that, they will ban me from entering Singapore with SVP too. I am not trying to be pushy here. But I really wanna know if there is anything I can do. Maybe security bond as MadScientist mentioned in lynx's link.

or is it really no chance for people who has problem like me and I should just give up hope on Singapore, and just find somewhere else?

I really hope that I could do something to fix this. Please help.
I would appreciate for each one of your opinions.
Thanks.

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Postby the lynx » Fri, 18 Jan 2013 3:31 pm

believeinmiracle wrote:@SMS
I was not with her when all that was going on. I was in my country.

@SMS & lynx
I have just called the HR to clarify how bad was the officers response.
It seemed that it was not about the qualifications, experience, salary or anything some sort of that, that the MOM rejected my application. It seemed to be a serious problem which they say it is Private and Confidential, and which I think it's my mother case.

OK let's put it this way.
let's say it is my mother case that caused the rejection. and let's say my mother did a serious crime (not just a petty crime)?
what do you think I should do?
I am afraid that if I take the wrong action, it would make the situation worse. The worst is that, they will ban me from entering Singapore with SVP too. I am not trying to be pushy here. But I really wanna know if there is anything I can do. Maybe security bond as MadScientist mentioned in lynx's link.

or is it really no chance for people who has problem like me and I should just give up hope on Singapore, and just find somewhere else?

I really hope that I could do something to fix this. Please help.
I would appreciate for each one of your opinions.
Thanks.


Err... so what crime did your mom do? Under which Penal Code? Etc...

You are right. You don't want to make mistake. We also don't want to give wrong advice. So you have to tell us the whole story, otherwise it will be pointless.

Back and forth, back and forth, but you're still not giving the full picture.


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