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Citizenship by descent

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HekiRin
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Citizenship by descent

Postby HekiRin » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 7:03 am

Hi everyone,

I was just doing a little reading in the forum out of curiosity, when the whole citizenship thing hit me.

I am a Singapore citizen, born and raise in Singapore, before meeting my fiancé (Australian) when I came to Australia to study. We are planning to get marry, and I am planning to obtain an Australia PR, keeping my Singapore Citizenship.

However, does that mean that my kids will automatic hold dual citizenship when they are born? I rather they do not, because of the whole '21years old need to renounce one of them' issue.I do not want to force them to cut ties with Singapore, should they choose to remain Australians.

So, my question: Can I prevent them from getting SG citizenship by default? If I give birth to them in Aus, then there shouldn't be an issue if I don't report to SG that I have given birth right? Or am I faced with no choice but to renounce my own citizenship to 'save' them?

And if, when they are mature and decide that want to return to Singapore, can they use their 'citizenship by descent' to become SG citizens?

Thank you!

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Re: Citizenship by descent

Postby offshoreoildude » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 7:42 am

HekiRin wrote:Hi everyone,

I was just doing a little reading in the forum out of curiosity, when the whole citizenship thing hit me.

I am a Singapore citizen, born and raise in Singapore, before meeting my fiancé (Australian) when I came to Australia to study. We are planning to get marry, and I am planning to obtain an Australia PR, keeping my Singapore Citizenship.

However, does that mean that my kids will automatic hold dual citizenship when they are born? I rather they do not, because of the whole '21years old need to renounce one of them' issue.I do not want to force them to cut ties with Singapore, should they choose to remain Australians.

So, my question: Can I prevent them from getting SG citizenship by default? If I give birth to them in Aus, then there shouldn't be an issue if I don't report to SG that I have given birth right? Or am I faced with no choice but to renounce my own citizenship to 'save' them?

And if, when they are mature and decide that want to return to Singapore, can they use their 'citizenship by descent' to become SG citizens?

Thank you!


Singapore citizenship by descent does not occur unless you explicitly register the birth of your children with ICA. IF your kids are born in Aussie to an Aussie mother they will be only Australians unless you come back to Singapore and register their birth with ICA and obtain a naturalisation certificate for them.
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HekiRin
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Re: Citizenship by descent

Postby HekiRin » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 8:07 am

offshoreoildude wrote:Singapore citizenship by descent does not occur unless you explicitly register the birth of your children with ICA. IF your kids are born in Aussie to an Aussie mother they will be only Australians unless you come back to Singapore and register their birth with ICA and obtain a naturalisation certificate for them.


Awesome! That means as long as I don't register them in Singapore, and have them travel to SG on Australia passports, then it doesn't matter until they grow up and decide they want to be SGreans! Cool! Thank you for the fast reply!

PS: my fiancé, means I am the lady and my Aussie is a guy =D

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Re: Citizenship by descent

Postby nakatago » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 9:05 am

HekiRin wrote:then it doesn't matter until they grow up and decide they want to be SGreans!


I don't think it works that way. I don't have the facts right now but you better check. They can only have the option of becoming Singaporeans if they hold dual citizenship in their childhood.

Unless of course, you're taking about naturalization (which means they'll give up their ozzie citizenship).

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Re: Citizenship by descent

Postby offshoreoildude » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 9:44 am

HekiRin wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:Singapore citizenship by descent does not occur unless you explicitly register the birth of your children with ICA. IF your kids are born in Aussie to an Aussie mother they will be only Australians unless you come back to Singapore and register their birth with ICA and obtain a naturalisation certificate for them.


Awesome! That means as long as I don't register them in Singapore, and have them travel to SG on Australia passports, then it doesn't matter until they grow up and decide they want to be SGreans! Cool! Thank you for the fast reply!

PS: my fiancé, means I am the lady and my Aussie is a guy =D


You could register them as children and they are permitted to be dual citizens until 21 when they must (by Singapore law) renounce on or the other. If they are never registered with ICA at birth or within a period afterwards by you they cannot become citizens once adults except via the normal PR/SC way.

BTW - citizenship by descent is NOT automatically granted for children of a Singapore woman - only for children of a Singapore man - you have to specifically apply to ICA along with registering their births. The Singapore constitution is quite specific on that.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 9:55 am

If you want them to be Singapore citizens but the were born overseas, I believe you have up to one year to file for their citizenship. If this isn't done, they are on their own.

The Overseas Singaporean wrote:Child born overseas to Singapore citizens

If your child is born overseas, you can submit an application for Singapore citizenship for your child within the first year of birth.

Click here for more details on citizenship application for your child.

Singapore citizens below 21 years old, with Dual Citizenship

If you should have a child overseas and your child acquires dual citizenship because he was born overseas, he has to decide if he wants to apply for Singapore citizenship once he reaches 21. This is because Singapore doesn’t recognise dual citizenship.


Upon applying for Singapore citizenship, your child will be required to:

Renounce his foreign citizenship
Take the Oath of Allegiance and Loyalty to Singapore.

If your child is male, he has to:

Enlist for National Service (NS) when he reaches 16 1/2 years of age
Serve 2 years of NS when he reaches 18.



ICA wrote:An overseas-born minor (child) may be eligible for Singapore Citizenship by Descent under Article 122(1) of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore, if his/her parents meet any of the following conditions:

Male Singapore citizen by Birth who has a lawful marriage at time of minor's birth
Male Singapore citizen by Registration who has a lawful marriage at time of minor's birth and minor does not acquire citizenship of the country he was born by reason of his birth in that country
Female Singapore citizen by Birth and minor born on or after 15 May 2004
Female Singapore citizen by Registration and minor born on or after 15 May 2004. Minor shall not acquire citizenship of the country he was born by reason of his birth in that country
Male (who has a lawful marriage at time of minor's birth) or Female Singapore citizen by Descent has to declare their residence period in Singapore. The application can only be accepted if the parent fulfils the requirements stipulated in the Annex.
The application has to be submitted within one year of the child's birth. Otherwise, a letter of explanation and additional documents are required for the late submission.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:00 am

Also I am wrong about the gender issue. SC by descent is now gender neutral (the constitution was changed after my son was born).

http://app4.ica.gov.sg/news_details.aspx?nid=7291
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Postby HekiRin » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 1:03 pm

Thank you all!

So from what I've read, if I don't register them within a year, then they have to do it the PR/SC way.

My goal is just not to do something stupid so that they can never return/ work/ study in Singapore if they choose to in the future. So will the best way be just not registering for them, applying for student visa/ work permit if they ever want to go experience Singapore, and then if they want, renounce the Australia citizenship and get Singapore PR and then SC.

I believe the choice is theirs, and I just want to minimise the chance that I will do something stupid to jeopardise it.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Sun, 20 Jan 2013 7:09 pm

HekiRin wrote:Thank you all!

So from what I've read, if I don't register them within a year, then they have to do it the PR/SC way.

My goal is just not to do something stupid so that they can never return/ work/ study in Singapore if they choose to in the future. So will the best way be just not registering for them, applying for student visa/ work permit if they ever want to go experience Singapore, and then if they want, renounce the Australia citizenship and get Singapore PR and then SC.

I believe the choice is theirs, and I just want to minimise the chance that I will do something stupid to jeopardise it.


Actually the path way varies a bit depending on whether you're talking about a son or daugther because of NS obligations.

I would register ad daughter with ICA in your situation. I most likely would not register a son if you're 100% certain you don't intend to work/live in Singapore before he turns 21.
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Postby kraikk » Wed, 04 Sep 2013 9:39 pm

Do note that if the marriage goes sour (I certainly hope not) and you want to move back to Singapore (I assume you are keeping that option open since you are keeping your SC), you will be in a much stronger position to get custody of your children if they are SC as well. If they are Australian with no right of residence in Singapore the judge will most likely order that they remain in Australia.

All very hypothetical but it has happened often enough: parents not being able to bring their children back with them because their children have no citizenship.

No harm registering and getting SC if the child's a girl.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 05 Sep 2013 2:14 am

kraikk wrote:Do note that if the marriage goes sour (I certainly hope not) and you want to move back to Singapore (I assume you are keeping that option open since you are keeping your SC), you will be in a much stronger position to get custody of your children if they are SC as well. If they are Australian with no right of residence in Singapore the judge will most likely order that they remain in Australia.

All very hypothetical but it has happened often enough: parents not being able to bring their children back with them because their children have no citizenship.

No harm registering and getting SC if the child's a girl.


Hey, hot shot, Long time no see !!

What are you up to ?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 05 Sep 2013 6:56 am

Wow! No kiddin' Welcome back kraikk. 'tis been a while!

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Postby katbh » Thu, 05 Sep 2013 7:47 am

If it were not for the NS issue, this would not even be a matter for discussion. But I have a small warning.... only boys are liable for NS at this time, but I suspect (and from the emphasis shown in NDP to women in the forces), it will not be long until Singapore catches up with the equality of the rest of the world, and girls will also have some sort of NS liability.

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Postby PNGMK » Thu, 05 Sep 2013 7:58 am

katbh wrote:If it were not for the NS issue, this would not even be a matter for discussion. But I have a small warning.... only boys are liable for NS at this time, but I suspect (and from the emphasis shown in NDP to women in the forces), it will not be long until Singapore catches up with the equality of the rest of the world, and girls will also have some sort of NS liability.



It's going to be called "Breed or Bleed".

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Postby katbh » Thu, 05 Sep 2013 8:03 am

^ snort :)


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