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Leaving Singapore nicely: 2 scenarios

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:26 am

It's pretty obvious that vink2 is about to do something dodgy as that's why he's been editing his posts. So, I have taken the liberty of quoting all of his posts in anticipation of him trying to delete his texts. Please do the same.

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Postby Sergei82 » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:42 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's pretty obvious that vink2 is about to do something dodgy as that's why he's been editing his posts. So, I have taken the liberty of quoting all of his posts in anticipation of him trying to delete his texts. Please do the same.
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SMS, there may be something else if I'm not wrong...
Maybe it is the same as with my company - he is in situation when he doesn't know whether his team will be moved to another country (India, Indonesia, whatever) or completely terminated, or left in Singapore for the time being. Not clear when this may happen. This plus disappointment with Singapore plus desire to find another job due to salary freeze for last several years (and watching VPs still receiving their bonuses as usual) gives him a lot of uncertainty. It is simply not clear whether he will be ready when that shit hits the fan.

Again, maybe I'm wrong about that... but I would've paid the taxes even if I'm already overseas.

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Postby Mi Amigo » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:57 am

Sergei82 wrote:... there may be something else if I'm not wrong...
Maybe it is the same as with my company - he is in situation when he doesn't know whether his team will be moved to another country (India, Indonesia, whatever) or completely terminated, or left in Singapore for the time being. Not clear when this may happen. This plus disappointment with Singapore plus desire to find another job due to salary freeze for last several years (and watching VPs still receiving their bonuses as usual) gives him a lot of uncertainty. It is simply not clear whether he will be ready when that shit hits the fan.

Again, maybe I'm wrong about that... but I would've paid the taxes even if I'm already overseas.

He may well be in that kind of situation; many people are at the moment. If his company move their operations out of Singapore then he will need to deal with the consequences. A diplomatic clause could apply in that eventuality, provided sufficient months have passed in the tenancy.

To the OP, I believe that 'rent and hiring' refers to the practice in many rental contracts where the amount paid each month is split into a 'rent' of the premises and 'hiring' of furniture and fixtures. It seems there's some kind of tax benefit (for the landlord) in doing that.

I expect that the vast majority of us are here on an 'at will employment' basis; i.e. it's at the 'will' of the company. They can terminate our employment at any time and, notwithstanding a notice period and anything else specifically covered in the contract of employment, we are on our own at that point. Anyone who doesn't prepare for such an eventuality and save sufficient money to cover their obligations is (sorry to be blunt) a fool IMO.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:12 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:... there may be something else if I'm not wrong...
Maybe it is the same as with my company - he is in situation when he doesn't know whether his team will be moved to another country (India, Indonesia, whatever) or completely terminated, or left in Singapore for the time being. Not clear when this may happen. This plus disappointment with Singapore plus desire to find another job due to salary freeze for last several years (and watching VPs still receiving their bonuses as usual) gives him a lot of uncertainty. It is simply not clear whether he will be ready when that shit hits the fan.

Again, maybe I'm wrong about that... but I would've paid the taxes even if I'm already overseas.

He may well be in that kind of situation; many people are at the moment. If his company move their operations out of Singapore then he will need to deal with the consequences. A diplomatic clause could apply in that eventuality, provided sufficient months have passed in the tenancy.

To the OP, I believe that 'rent and hiring' refers to the practice in many rental contracts where the amount paid each month is split into a 'rent' of the premises and 'hiring' of furniture and fixtures. It seems there's some kind of tax benefit (for the landlord) in doing that.

I expect that the vast majority of us are here on an 'at will employment' basis; i.e. it's at the 'will' of the company. They can terminate our employment at any time and, notwithstanding a notice period and anything else specifically covered in the contract of employment, we are on our own at that point. Anyone who doesn't prepare for such an eventuality and save sufficient money to cover their obligations is (sorry to be blunt) a fool IMO.


You may well be right, but given the predisposition of a lot of recent new posters who have created threads with several pages only to delete all their posts once we have answered their questions, and the fact that he's already been editing them, I'm not taking any chances. Too damned troublesome trying to reconstruct a thread especially when trying to keep my own job at the same time! ;-)

You may be right about the rent & hiring. There used to be tax benefits of listing the furnishings separately (apportioned as "in kind" benefits) but that has been negated a number of years ago, but some old landlords haven't changed and probably won't as it's psychological I suppose.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:18 pm

beppi wrote:I am a bit disturbed that somebody, under the subject "Leaving Singapore NICELY", first implies he wants to avoid paying his tax bill (and thinks he can get away with it), then that he wants to abscond from his job, and then that he wants to screw his landlord.
OP: It is o.k. to dislike your job and want to return home, but this does NOT give you the right to misbehave towards others. This is your problem and nobody else's! So please act like an adult and fulfil what you are required by law (tax) or promised/signed to do (work and rental contract).


OP misses his mummies teat.... that's why he can't deal with adult issues.
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Postby offshoreoildude » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:19 pm

Sergei82 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:It's pretty obvious that vink2 is about to do something dodgy as that's why he's been editing his posts. So, I have taken the liberty of quoting all of his posts in anticipation of him trying to delete his texts. Please do the same.
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SMS, there may be something else if I'm not wrong...
Maybe it is the same as with my company - he is in situation when he doesn't know whether his team will be moved to another country (India, Indonesia, whatever) or completely terminated, or left in Singapore for the time being. Not clear when this may happen. This plus disappointment with Singapore plus desire to find another job due to salary freeze for last several years (and watching VPs still receiving their bonuses as usual) gives him a lot of uncertainty. It is simply not clear whether he will be ready when that shit hits the fan.

Again, maybe I'm wrong about that... but I would've paid the taxes even if I'm already overseas.


You're very honorable for a .. (insert clause)... and that is the correct thing to do.
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Postby Mi Amigo » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:22 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:You may well be right, but given the predisposition of a lot of recent new posters who have created threads with several pages only to delete all their posts once we have answered their questions, and the fact that he's already been editing them, I'm not taking any chances. Too damned troublesome trying to reconstruct a thread especially when trying to keep my own job at the same time! ;-)

Right; it wouldn't be the first time we had a 'toys out of the pram' incident :wink:

sundaymorningstaple wrote:You may be right about the rent & hiring. There used to be tax benefits of listing the furnishings separately (apportioned as "in kind" benefits) but that has been negated a number of years ago, but some old landlords haven't changed and probably won't as it's psychological I suppose.

That's interesting; I didn't realise that the tax benefit doesn't exist any more. Probably just inertia / laziness that's kept the wording in rental contract templates.
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Postby offshoreoildude » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:30 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:... there may be something else if I'm not wrong...
Maybe it is the same as with my company - he is in situation when he doesn't know whether his team will be moved to another country (India, Indonesia, whatever) or completely terminated, or left in Singapore for the time being. Not clear when this may happen. This plus disappointment with Singapore plus desire to find another job due to salary freeze for last several years (and watching VPs still receiving their bonuses as usual) gives him a lot of uncertainty. It is simply not clear whether he will be ready when that shit hits the fan.

Again, maybe I'm wrong about that... but I would've paid the taxes even if I'm already overseas.

He may well be in that kind of situation; many people are at the moment. If his company move their operations out of Singapore then he will need to deal with the consequences. A diplomatic clause could apply in that eventuality, provided sufficient months have passed in the tenancy.

To the OP, I believe that 'rent and hiring' refers to the practice in many rental contracts where the amount paid each month is split into a 'rent' of the premises and 'hiring' of furniture and fixtures. It seems there's some kind of tax benefit (for the landlord) in doing that.

I expect that the vast majority of us are here on an 'at will employment' basis; i.e. it's at the 'will' of the company. They can terminate our employment at any time and, notwithstanding a notice period and anything else specifically covered in the contract of employment, we are on our own at that point. Anyone who doesn't prepare for such an eventuality and save sufficient money to cover their obligations is (sorry to be blunt) a fool IMO.


If the sucking at the breast OP is transferred out - he can make arrangements to have his tax matters cleared up out of pay advance from his employer. No excuse there.
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Postby Sergei82 » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 2:18 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The second part doesn't wash if YOU quit. Only if you are made redundant by the employer and you can show written documentary proof to the LL.


Actually, THIS cannot leave my mind now. I was sure if I quit, my employment is over automatically. According to SMS, I'm trapped for the whole tenancy period! I cannot leave Singapore without huge losses while I'm renting, is it??????

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Postby roryn » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 2:28 pm

Sergei82 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:The second part doesn't wash if YOU quit. Only if you are made redundant by the employer and you can show written documentary proof to the LL.


Actually, THIS cannot leave my mind now. I was sure if I quit, my employment is over automatically. According to SMS, I'm trapped for the whole tenancy period! I cannot leave Singapore without huge losses while I'm renting, is it??????


Hey Sergei, yep I thik that's what it means. There's a similar diplomacy clause in my tenancy contract, i.e. can break lease after 14 months if I relocate due to company needs. Doesn't apply if I break the lease myself. This is for a two-year lease.

My agent said that if I proactively break the lease after 14 months, then I will get back my deposit pro-rated to outstanding length of leave, and I would also have to pay up part of agent fees (which was originally paid by landlord).

However if I were to break lease before 14 months are up, then I would not see a cent of my 2-month deposit, unless my landlord is a reasonable person and works out a mutual agreement.

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Postby Sergei82 » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 2:37 pm

If it is just losing deposit, it is still bearable. I thought, you should pay for the whole rest of the tenancy period in advance if you're leaving.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 2:37 pm

If you break the lease without a Dip clause that allows you a way out IF YOU INITIATE the break with the employer, you will be liable for the entire lease. You might be able to strike a deal with the Landlord, but without the dip clause ALSO allowing you to initiate the procedure, you are completely at the mercy of the Landlord.

If you think about it, with a codicil that would allow you to arbitrarily break the lease after a year, it wouldn't need a Dip Clause at all, would it.

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Postby roryn » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 2:40 pm

To the OP, if you are indeed genuine in your intent:

This what I know based on what friends have gone through + some personal experience:

1. If you are a foreigner with no ties to Singapore (work pass, EP holder), then company withholds your last 1-2 months salary, works out the outstanding income tax owed to IRAS, pays IRAS from your withheld salary, and then deposits the remaining $$ to your account. This process takes anywhere between 3-5 weeks, so accounting for 1 month of salary that has been withheld, you are looking at approx. 2 months of zero cash flow.

2. If you are a PR who had left employment voluntarily / fired, and not leaving the country permanently i.e. you still retain your PR, travel in an out of Singapore, and will be looking for opportunities in Singapore in the future; then company proceeds to file your IT as usual during the regular filing period. You can then make payment for the outstanding tax online via credit card or through your bank account (GIRO), even if you are overseas.

There is no withholding of salary in case 2, as you are expected to pay up as per the usual schedule. I assume this is because you are still a PR, so IRAS / ICA can catch up to you if you have any intention to abscond.

This is what I've observed, other's experience may be different.

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Postby roryn » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 2:43 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If you break the lease without a Dip clause that allows you a way out IF YOU INITIATE the break with the employer, you will be liable for the entire lease.


Is that so?! :o

Would you have to pay up rental for the remaining months of your lease? I've personally never heard of anyone doing this. I've freinds who've had to give up part of their deposits, that's all.

It's mighty punch in your wallet if this is the case@

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 3:03 pm

Legally? Yes. But normally, something is usually "settled" somewhere in between. That or a runner is done. Not legal but sadly, happens all too often.

The deposit is not for unpaid rental. The deposit is held against potential damages to the unit.


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