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Leaving Singapore nicely: 2 scenarios

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Mi Amigo
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Postby Mi Amigo » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 9:13 pm

vink2 wrote:
Thanks, but I'm not fired. I'm trying to understand what to do if I need to leave my company or something bad happen.


OK, so it's scenario 'b' then. In which case you should have more time to organise things so that you can pay everyone (not just IRAS, but all the other people you might owe money to) before you leave.
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby vink2 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 9:13 pm

One more question: at the moment IRAS deduct tax from my GIRO every month.
If I decide Singapore in 1 month, how I will pay tax if IRAS calculate them at some time in the beginning of this year? Or I need write to IRAS and ask to calculate?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 9:19 pm

vink2 wrote:One more question: at the moment IRAS deduct tax from my GIRO every month.
If I decide Singapore in 1 month, how I will pay tax if IRAS calculate them at some time in the beginning of this year? Or I need write to IRAS and ask to calculate?


You don't have to do anything unless you have done something illegal and are about to be arrested.

Even if you are fired, you will still have to work out your notice or the employer will have to pay you salary in lieu of notice. However, that's not going to happen as long as you are a foreigner. What will probably happen is you will be put on "Garden" leave and your salary held while they apply for the IR-21 (Tax Clearance). If they are going to do this, they will probably wait till the day before the GIRO payment to your account (assuming you are paid by GIRO) or the day before your paycheck is issued, and then give you notice. From the day of giving notice ALL salaries must be held (by law) until such time as the IR-21 is filed, notification given to the employer by IRAS of the taxes due and the employer complying with the IRAS directive to pay the taxes on your behalf (they have to do this by law). At that point the letter will also tell the employer, after deduction said Income Tax, to release the balance of any monies due you. This way, they could conceivably hold your salary the last two months but would have to pay you all monies due you after deduction the Income Tax. If you work/stay out your notice and do not do a runner, then they MUST pay you on your last day of work. Failing which, you should proceed directly to MOM to file a complaint.
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby vink2 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:05 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:You don't have to do anything unless you have done something illegal and are about to be arrested.

Even if you are fired, you will still have to work out your notice or the employer will have to pay you salary in lieu of notice. However, that's not going to happen as long as you are a foreigner. What will probably happen is you will be put on "Garden" leave and your salary held while they apply for the IR-21 (Tax Clearance). If they are going to do this, they will probably wait till the day before the GIRO payment to your account (assuming you are paid by GIRO) or the day before your paycheck is issued, and then give you notice. From the day of giving notice ALL salaries must be held (by law) until such time as the IR-21 is filed, notification given to the employer by IRAS of the taxes due and the employer complying with the IRAS directive to pay the taxes on your behalf (they have to do this by law). At that point the letter will also tell the employer, after deduction said Income Tax, to release the balance of any monies due you. This way, they could conceivably hold your salary the last two months but would have to pay you all monies due you after deduction the Income Tax. If you work/stay out your notice and do not do a runner, then they MUST pay you on your last day of work. Failing which, you should proceed directly to MOM to file a complaint.



Thanks, good message.

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Postby vink2 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:11 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:
vink2 wrote:Okay, nice, so, basically, I need to work for my company, give them a notice period, work almost one moth for free and they will fix this. Is it right?

Why do you consider it to be working 'for free'? You've worked here for a while, therefore you (presumably) owe income tax to IRAS and that has to be paid. It's not a fine, it's an obligation that you (should) have been aware of all along.

It's unfortunate for you that you were fired*, but you need to face the consequences. You might consider them unfair, but they are only going to get you to pay what you owe (unless you're unlucky like JR8 was).

* One question - originally you talked about being fired; now you've mentioned about giving the company a notice period. So which is it?



One thing about this - I have never heard about foreigners been prosecuted if they don't have many to pay taxes. So, I think, employer pays for them.
So, I think, sundaymorningstaple has a point.

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:15 pm

vink2 wrote:
Mi Amigo wrote:
vink2 wrote:Okay, nice, so, basically, I need to work for my company, give them a notice period, work almost one moth for free and they will fix this. Is it right?

Why do you consider it to be working 'for free'? You've worked here for a while, therefore you (presumably) owe income tax to IRAS and that has to be paid. It's not a fine, it's an obligation that you (should) have been aware of all along.

It's unfortunate for you that you were fired*, but you need to face the consequences. You might consider them unfair, but they are only going to get you to pay what you owe (unless you're unlucky like JR8 was).

* One question - originally you talked about being fired; now you've mentioned about giving the company a notice period. So which is it?



One thing about this - I have never heard about foreigners been prosecuted if they don't have many to pay taxes. So, I think, employer pays for them.
So, I think, sundaymorningstaple has a point.


beppi wrote:Thus the only way to leave Singapore with a tax liability is by absconding without giving proper notice to the company.



Or having a tax liability greater than the final month of pay that HR withholds, and at the time of leaving they do not realise this because they have calculated it incorrectly.

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Postby vink2 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:57 pm

Okay, may we discuss my diplomatic clause?
I want to be nice with may landlord, but I need to be sure that I'm no the right side all the time.

"Notwithstanding anything herein contained the said term may at any time after the expiration of the first TWELVE (12) month of the said term be determined on documentary evidence that the immediate occupant has ceased or is about to cease to be employed in Singapore or is forced to be posted back to their country permanently during the said term, the Tenant shall give the Landlord TWO (02) calendar months' notice in writing or the Tenant's intention to determine the Tenancy or two (02) months rent and hiring in lieu of such notice."

First question: what does "hiring in lieu of such notice" mean?
Second question: will this work if I decide to terminate my employment, i.e. not my employer terminates me?
Last edited by vink2 on Tue, 15 Jan 2013 7:36 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:30 pm

vink2 wrote:Okay, may we discuss my diplomatic clause?
I want to be nice with may landlord, but I need to be sure that I'm no the right side all the time.

"Notwithstanding anything herein contained the said term may at any time after the expiration of the first TWELVE (12) month of the said term be determined on documentary evidence that the immediate occupant has ceased or is about to cease to be employed in Singapore or is forced to be posted back to their country permanently during the said term, the Tenant shall give the Landlord TWO (02) calendar months' notice in writing or the Tenant's intention to determine the Tenancy or two (02) months rent and hiring in lieu of such notice."

First question: what does "hiring in lieu of such notice" mean?
Second question: will this work if I decide to terminate my employment, i.e. not my employer terminates me?


Not sure about the "rend and hiring" part. If fact I'm not sure what rend is supposed to mean. Are you sure you have typed that correctly?

The second part doesn't wash if YOU quit. Only if you are made redundant by the employer and you can show written documentary proof to the LL.
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:13 am

vink2 wrote:Okay, may we discuss my diplomatic clause?


Please:
- check your spelling, i.e. 'rend' and 'hiring'.
- please fill in actual periods rather than 'n'
- Please advise actual dates, of tenancy and notice.

Without the above, no proper advice is possible.

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Postby beppi » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:44 am

I am a bit disturbed that somebody, under the subject "Leaving Singapore NICELY", first implies he wants to avoid paying his tax bill (and thinks he can get away with it), then that he wants to abscond from his job, and then that he wants to screw his landlord.
OP: It is o.k. to dislike your job and want to return home, but this does NOT give you the right to misbehave towards others. This is your problem and nobody else's! So please act like an adult and fulfil what you are required by law (tax) or promised/signed to do (work and rental contract).

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Postby vink2 » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 7:31 am

beppi wrote:I am a bit disturbed that somebody, under the subject "Leaving Singapore NICELY", first implies he wants to avoid paying his tax bill (and thinks he can get away with it), then that he wants to abscond from his job, and then that he wants to screw his landlord.
OP: It is o.k. to dislike your job and want to return home, but this does NOT give you the right to misbehave towards others. This is your problem and nobody else's! So please act like an adult and fulfil what you are required by law (tax) or promised/signed to do (work and rental contract).


Mate, nobody is going to be cheated and your statements are wrong.
I respect Singapore and its people and want to do everything right.
Last edited by vink2 on Tue, 15 Jan 2013 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby vink2 » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 7:37 am

JR8 wrote:
vink2 wrote:Okay, may we discuss my diplomatic clause?


Please:
- check your spelling, i.e. 'rend' and 'hiring'.
- please fill in actual periods rather than 'n'
- Please advise actual dates, of tenancy and notice.

Without the above, no proper advice is possible.


Thanks, I corrected. It is rent and hiring - but still have no idea what does it mean.
I suspect that "the Tenant shall give the Landlord TWO (02) calendar months' notice in writing or the Tenant's intention to determine the Tenancy or two (02) months rent and hiring in lieu of such notice." "

Means either I send notification to Landlord about my job termination or I just pay rent for 2 months. Is it right?


As for periods - it is exact version.
Dates added.

Thanks for further advices.
Last edited by vink2 on Tue, 15 Jan 2013 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 7:40 am

vink2 wrote:
beppi wrote:I am a bit disturbed that somebody, under the subject "Leaving Singapore NICELY", first implies he wants to avoid paying his tax bill (and thinks he can get away with it), then that he wants to abscond from his job, and then that he wants to screw his landlord.
OP: It is o.k. to dislike your job and want to return home, but this does NOT give you the right to misbehave towards others. This is your problem and nobody else's! So please act like an adult and fulfil what you are required by law (tax) or promised/signed to do (work and rental contract).


Mate, nobody is going to be cheated and your statements are wrong.
I respect Singapore and its people and want to do everything right.


vink2 wrote:
JR8 wrote:
vink2 wrote:Okay, may we discuss my diplomatic clause?


Please:
- check your spelling, i.e. 'rend' and 'hiring'.
- please fill in actual periods rather than 'n'
- Please advise actual dates, of tenancy and notice.

Without the above, no proper advice is possible.


Thanks, I corrected. It is rent and hiring - but still have no idea what does it mean.
I suspect that "the Tenant shall give the Landlord TWO (02) calendar months' notice in writing or the Tenant's intention to determine the Tenancy or two (02) months rent and hiring in lieu of such notice." "

Means either I send notification to Landlord about my job termination or I just pay rent for 2 months. Is it right?


As for periods - it is exact version.
Dates added.

Thanks for further advices.


vink2 wrote:
Mi Amigo wrote:
vink2 wrote:Okay, nice, so, basically, I need to work for my company, give them a notice period, work almost one moth for free and they will fix this. Is it right?

Why do you consider it to be working 'for free'? You've worked here for a while, therefore you (presumably) owe income tax to IRAS and that has to be paid. It's not a fine, it's an obligation that you (should) have been aware of all along.

It's unfortunate for you that you were fired*, but you need to face the consequences. You might consider them unfair, but they are only going to get you to pay what you owe (unless you're unlucky like JR8 was).

* One question - originally you talked about being fired; now you've mentioned about giving the company a notice period. So which is it?



One thing about this - I have never heard about foreigners been prosecuted if they don't have many to pay taxes. So, I think, employer pays for them.
So, I think, sundaymorningstaple has a point.


I don't think you've been in Singapore long enough to know that point about foreigners being prosecuted. What I can guarantee you is this; if someone works out you;re on the run and you owe taxes you won't get past immigration control on the way out of the country.
Now I'm called PNGMK

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Postby vink2 » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 7:43 am

offshoreoildude wrote:I don't think you've been in Singapore long enough to know that point about foreigners being prosecuted. What I can guarantee you is this; if someone works out you;re on the run and you owe taxes you won't get past immigration control on the way out of the country.


I'm not going to discuss my personal situation and I'm not going to cheat anyone in Singapore, but also need this information. Is it okay?

Adding to this, I discussed situation when you don't have money to pay taxes and rent and don't have a job here, not situation when you cheat and run. How can anyone can be prosecuted if he is bankrupt? Say, you had an accident and paid all your money to the hospital to survive. As I remember from MOM website, in this case company also should depart (pay for air tickets) for their own money.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 9:57 am

vink2 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:I don't think you've been in Singapore long enough to know that point about foreigners being prosecuted. What I can guarantee you is this; if someone works out you;re on the run and you owe taxes you won't get past immigration control on the way out of the country.


I'm not going to discuss my personal situation and I'm not going to cheat anyone in Singapore, but also need this information. Is it okay?

Adding to this, I discussed situation when you don't have money to pay taxes and rent and don't have a job here, not situation when you cheat and run. How can anyone can be prosecuted if he is bankrupt? Say, you had an accident and paid all your money to the hospital to survive. As I remember from MOM website, in this case company also should depart (pay for air tickets) for their own money.


Not it's not ok. I smell a rat. If you can't manage your budget well enough to cope with the small level of income tax here you are a child, not an adult and you need your mummy not us to help you.

You're dreaming if you think that a company should pay all of that unless it's specified (explicitly) in your employment contract.

As for your example about bankruptcy - bankruptcy may destroy your chances of future employment as an expat - it's common now for MNC's to conduct a credit check on hi level employees and bankruptcy is an indication that an individual cannot manage his own affairs and should not be trusted with others affairs.

Do not think you can run and hide. I had a former tenant who ran.... I know he ran because I keep getting his bills and court summons.... guess what? He ran to India and they caught up with him there.... and now he's paying - with interest, legal fees and penalties - probably 3 times what he owed. The same will happen with you.

Make arrangements to pay all your bills before you leave. If you don't our experience here has been that you will eventually regret it.
Now I'm called PNGMK


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