NS Defaulter 40+ yr old

[sundaymorningstaple]

sy_aus, nothing like stating the obvious. Did you bother to read the thread?

[OneGoodSon]

Hello all,

I'm one of these NS defaulters. Left at the age of 17 for the US. Now I'm 45 years old.

My questions are:
1) Can I renounce my Singapore citizenship now that I'm over 40 years old? It seems the Enlistment Act does not apply anymore after 40. If so, is there any benefit to doing that.
2) Should I contact Mindef or CMPB? Could they tell me what the exact penalty is before I ever land in Singapore? Incarceration is not an option for me, as I have to provide for my kids.
3) Can there be other forms of amends besides incarceration? Community service, etc.

OneGoodSon

It's been a while, but I just want to close the loop on this matter.

Can anyone clarify whether I can renounce Singapore citizenship after 40? I have no intention to ever visit Singapore again. I just want to sever all ties with this place. In the future when anyone or employer asks me, I do not even want to mention I possess even any passport or citizenship from Singapore.

Thanks in advance.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I reckon that they will not even talk to you unless you approach them in person. Of course, once that happens you stand a good chance of incarceration and/or a healthy fine (the amount of which would be determined). I'm sure you have read the story of Melvyn Tan (The Piano Man) see link below. Currently you would probably looking at a $5K fine and possibly up to 3 years jail as they will no longer allow renuciation as long as you have an NS liability. This was not always the case in the past (as with Melvyn Tan).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melvyn_Tan

and more importantly,

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/press_ ... 06_nr.html

You biggest danger is flying to somewhere in the region and being diverted for one reason or another to Singapore and having to disembark for long enough to have to pass through immigration where you will be picked up for sure as you name will be flagged and upon inspection will find that you are a defaulter (the will pick up the name and then on closer inspection will find out your parents are Singaporeans and the game will be up. All the country's databases (Mindef, IRAS, ICA, MOM and Nat'l Health/hospital birth records are all interlinked now). Good Luck. I fear you will need it.

[OneGoodSon]

I won't step foot in Singapore for this. I would just apply in the US to renounce whatever relationship I have left it and the PAP, which in reality is the root cause of many of these NS issues for me and thousands of exiled ex-Singaporeans.

As can be seen below, I am not subjected to the PAP self-serving Enlistment Act anymore.


This, according to the Constitution:

Renunciation of citizenship
128.—(1) Any citizen of Singapore of or over the age of 21 years and of sound mind who is also or is about to become a citizen of another country may renounce his citizenship of Singapore by declaration registered by the Government, and shall upon such registration cease to be a citizen of Singapore.
(2) The Government may withhold the registration of a declaration under this Article —
(a)
if the declaration is made during any war in which Singapore is engaged; or
(b)
if the declaration is made by a person subject to the Enlistment Act (Cap. 93) unless he has —
(i)
discharged his liability for full-time service under section 12 of that Act;
(ii)
rendered at least 3 years of operationally ready national service under section 13 of that Act in lieu of such full-time service; or
(iii)
complied with such conditions as may be determined by the Government.


This, according to the Enlistment Act:

“person subject to this Act” means a person who is a citizen of Singapore or a permanent resident thereof and who is not less than 16 years and 6 months of age and not more than 40 years of age or, in the case of a person who —
(a)
is an officer of the armed forces or a senior military expert; or
[28/2009 wef 01/04/2010]
(b)
is skilled in an occupation which the Minister by notification in the Gazette designates as an occupation required to meet the needs of the armed forces,
not more than 50 years of age;

[sundaymorningstaple]

Two things. First, it's not the "PAP" self-serving Enlistment Act. It's the Government's Enlistment Act.

Secondly, if you already know the answer you "Want" then why bother to even post here? No matter what we tell you, your preconceived mind is already made up. Good Luck. Renounce, and then fly into Singapore on a visit and let us know how you fared.

[PNGMK]

Hello all,

I'm one of these NS defaulters. Left at the age of 17 for the US. Now I'm 45 years old.

My questions are:
1) Can I renounce my Singapore citizenship now that I'm over 40 years old? It seems the Enlistment Act does not apply anymore after 40. If so, is there any benefit to doing that.
2) Should I contact Mindef or CMPB? Could they tell me what the exact penalty is before I ever land in Singapore? Incarceration is not an option for me, as I have to provide for my kids.
3) Can there be other forms of amends besides incarceration? Community service, etc.

OneGoodSon

It's been a while, but I just want to close the loop on this matter.

Can anyone clarify whether I can renounce Singapore citizenship after 40? I have no intention to ever visit Singapore again. I just want to sever all ties with this place. In the future when anyone or employer asks me, I do not even want to mention I possess even any passport or citizenship from Singapore.

Thanks in advance.

It's not hard - if over 21 you only need the renunciation form (which can only be collected in person from ICA in Singapore - sweet move that one) and your red passport. Fill out the form and attend your nearest Singapore High Comm.

[OneGoodSon]

Two things. First, it's not the "PAP" self-serving Enlistment Act. It's the Government's Enlistment Act.

Secondly, if you already know the answer you "Want" then why bother to even post here? No matter what we tell you, your preconceived mind is already made up. Good Luck. Renounce, and then fly into Singapore on a visit and let us know how you fared.

SMS, I find your tone to be rude and condescending. I've already said I'm not going back there.

And please do not confuse PAP to be representing the good for Singapore. They may be the government right now, but their interest is for themselves, not the common citizen. The last I checked, these so called ministers are all paid in the millions. With your response above, it seems like you think highly of the current PAP leaders and what they bring to the table. It crossed my mind that you could be working for them trolling these forums and spewing pro-PAP propaganda. Please do NOT respond to my questions if you do not have anything of value to add, or cannot answer my question.

[OneGoodSon]

It's not hard - if over 21 you only need the renunciation form (which can only be collected in person from ICA in Singapore - sweet move that one) and your red passport. Fill out the form and attend your nearest Singapore High Comm.

Where does it say that the form needs to be collected in person from ICA?

The following is from http://www.mfa.gov.sg/content/mfa/overs ... ncesc.html

Renunciation of Singapore Citizenship

A citizen of Singapore can only renounce his/her Singapore citizenship if he/she is of or over the age of 21 years and has acquired citizenship of another country. To obtain the Application for Renunciation of Citizenship package, please email the Singapore Embassy and provide your full name (as in your NRIC/Singapore passport), NRIC, date of birth, gender and contact details. The application package will include instructions, forms and list of documents to be submitted.

[JR8]

<can't delete my post, so I'll butt-out by editing it to irrelevance instead>

[OneGoodSon]

Oh mama,
I just saved a copy of this discussion for posterity.

@OneGoodSon, at the least you should know that SMS is from a military family and believes in the moral obligation of carrying out requirements that you have accepted, and that are due.

OK now this all makes sense. SMS is one of those 60.1% who voted for the PAP. Good for him, because soon Singapore would be overrun with new immigrants from China and India who don't even believe in NS in the first place.

All I am doing right now is to cut all ties with a country (well, a tiny small island) run by a dictatorship with out-of-this-world laws. Even then, it is almost impossible to give up this stupid citizenship because it has been difficult for me to find any solid information until I had to look up the Constitution of Singapore and the Enlistment Act.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Oh mama,
I just saved a copy of this discussion for posterity.

@OneGoodSon, at the least you should know that SMS is from a military family and believes in the moral obligation of carrying out requirements that you have accepted, and that are due.

OK now this all makes sense. SMS is one of those 60.1% who voted for the PAP. Good for him, because soon Singapore would be overrun with new immigrants from China and India who don't even believe in NS in the first place.

All I am doing right now is to cut all ties with a country (well, a tiny small island) run by a dictatorship with out-of-this-world laws. Even then, it is almost impossible to give up this stupid citizenship because it has been difficult for me to find any solid information until I had to look up the Constitution of Singapore and the Enlistment Act.

You are funny as hell, OneDebatableSon, I'm a PR and not a citizen and have been one for 25 years. So I didn't vote for the PAP. I have news for you. You are a dual citizen and will continue to be so until you sort out your NS obligation. The fact that you can submit your renunciation via form does not mean the government will or has to accept it. The same is true of the United States in that regard.

It's just like the MOM self assessment test regarding the gaining of an employment pass. It only means they will accept the application form if you qualify, but it does not mean that they will GIVE you the pass.

Therefore, you will always be a dual citizen and the moment you end up in Singapore against your wishes is the moment your worst nightmares will come true. Frankly, if it were up to me, I definitely give you your renunciation as the country is better of without worthless users of oxygen who have chicken blood running in their veins. If you didn't like how the country was being run, why didn't you do something about it? No cojones? Oh, that's obvious, as you ran away from your birthright obligations. Dog help the country who has you now as they don't realize what a mistake they've made.

[PNGMK]

It's not hard - if over 21 you only need the renunciation form (which can only be collected in person from ICA in Singapore - sweet move that one) and your red passport. Fill out the form and attend your nearest Singapore High Comm.

Where does it say that the form needs to be collected in person from ICA?

The following is from http://www.mfa.gov.sg/content/mfa/overs ... ncesc.html

Renunciation of Singapore Citizenship

A citizen of Singapore can only renounce his/her Singapore citizenship if he/she is of or over the age of 21 years and has acquired citizenship of another country. To obtain the Application for Renunciation of Citizenship package, please email the Singapore Embassy and provide your full name (as in your NRIC/Singapore passport), NRIC, date of birth, gender and contact details. The application package will include instructions, forms and list of documents to be submitted.

Good luck - let us know seriously if you can get this done. Last I checked was with someone a year back was via a woman trying to renounce .... she discovered this quirk (that the form - and you know nothing happens without a form) could only be obtained in person from ICA.

[OneGoodSon]

You are funny as hell, OneDebatableSon, I'm a PR and not a citizen and have been one for 25 years. So I didn't vote for the PAP. I have news for you. You are a dual citizen and will continue to be so until you sort out your NS obligation. The fact that you can submit your renunciation via form does not mean the government will or has to accept it. The same is true of the United States in that regard.

It's just like the MOM self assessment test regarding the gaining of an employment pass. It only means they will accept the application form if you qualify, but it does not mean that they will GIVE you the pass.

Therefore, you will always be a dual citizen and the moment you end up in Singapore against your wishes is the moment your worst nightmares will come true. Frankly, if it were up to me, I definitely give you your renunciation as the country is better of without worthless users of oxygen who have chicken blood running in their veins. If you didn't like how the country was being run, why didn't you do something about it? No cojones? Oh, that's obvious, as you ran away from your birthright obligations. Dog help the country who has you now as they don't realize what a mistake they've made.

Listen to yourself! You sound so cynical. What kind of moderator is so insulting?

Look I didn't run away from my obligations. My whole family decided to move FROM Singapore to start a new life somewhere else. What don't you get about this?

And please stop thinking you are better than me, or others. Your arrogance is not warranted in this forum. And you should NOT be a moderator.

[OneGoodSon]

It's not hard - if over 21 you only need the renunciation form (which can only be collected in person from ICA in Singapore - sweet move that one) and your red passport. Fill out the form and attend your nearest Singapore High Comm.

Where does it say that the form needs to be collected in person from ICA?

The following is from http://www.mfa.gov.sg/content/mfa/overs ... ncesc.html

Renunciation of Singapore Citizenship

A citizen of Singapore can only renounce his/her Singapore citizenship if he/she is of or over the age of 21 years and has acquired citizenship of another country. To obtain the Application for Renunciation of Citizenship package, please email the Singapore Embassy and provide your full name (as in your NRIC/Singapore passport), NRIC, date of birth, gender and contact details. The application package will include instructions, forms and list of documents to be submitted.

Good luck - let us know seriously if you can get this done. Last I checked was with someone a year back was via a woman trying to renounce .... she discovered this quirk (that the form - and you know nothing happens without a form) could only be obtained in person from ICA.

Alright. Thanks PNGMK.

[sundaymorningstaple]

You are funny as hell, OneDebatableSon, I'm a PR and not a citizen and have been one for 25 years. So I didn't vote for the PAP. I have news for you. You are a dual citizen and will continue to be so until you sort out your NS obligation. The fact that you can submit your renunciation via form does not mean the government will or has to accept it. The same is true of the United States in that regard.

It's just like the MOM self assessment test regarding the gaining of an employment pass. It only means they will accept the application form if you qualify, but it does not mean that they will GIVE you the pass.

Therefore, you will always be a dual citizen and the moment you end up in Singapore against your wishes is the moment your worst nightmares will come true. Frankly, if it were up to me, I definitely give you your renunciation as the country is better of without worthless users of oxygen who have chicken blood running in their veins. If you didn't like how the country was being run, why didn't you do something about it? No cojones? Oh, that's obvious, as you ran away from your birthright obligations. Dog help the country who has you now as they don't realize what a mistake they've made.

Listen to yourself! You sound so cynical. What kind of moderator is so insulting?

Look I didn't run away from my obligations. My whole family decided to move FROM Singapore to start a new life somewhere else. What don't you get about this?

And please stop thinking you are better than me, or others. Your arrogance is not warranted in this forum. And you should NOT be a moderator.

Don't blame me. What don't I get about it? Blame your parents for not following proper protocol. Thousands follow the proper procedure every year and don't have a problem. So, be sure to thank your parents for the mess you are in. Why didn't you check out you liabilities when you were a teen? Surely you knew that it was an obligation and yet you didn't check out your options. You just buried your head in the sand and just hoped it would go away. Your arrogance surpasses mine by a long shot because you were only looking for some agreement/sympathy here. When it didn't come, you started getting antsy. Good Luck.

Oh, I am not replying in a moderators mode. If I am, you would already have known it.