NS Defaulter 40+ yr old

[OneGoodSon]

When we emigrated halfway through my JC, the reason we gave was we were going for vacation. My classmates knew I was emigrating, but not my teachers. Both my dad and I had return air tickets to prove I was coming back after the Xmas break.

Ouch.

No one said emigrating is easy. Actually if I had known how hard it was in the beginning, we might have just stayed back in Singapore. However by then the wheels were set in motion, and we couldn't turn back, especially for my case. We already sold our flat, my dad was in the process of renouncing, etc.

I have known families who have packed their bags and gone back to Singapore because they found it so tough in the first few years. Of course they didn't have NS liable sons, so it wasn't an issue. If the Singapore government relaxes a bit, I think it will have an opposite effect. Instead of "fearing" people leave due to NS or whatever issues, let them leave. Once they find out how hard it is in western countries to survive, they'll come right back. Except for people like me, we can't. This just increased our resolve to "make it work" in our new country. Now 20+ years later, finally things are looking good - professional job and growing family. Long journey, if you ask me.

I'll give a few reasons why emigration is hard. So for those thinking about it, here they are:
1) Culture and language - there will always be racism (against you)
2) Weather - much colder than Singapore in some areas
3) Food - potatoes anyone?
4) Jobs - very difficult for new immigrants to get decent professional jobs
5) Cannot go back to Singapore again - in my case. Of course the Singapore I remember in the 80's was one with Singlish spoken everywhere.

Just my two cents. Now in hindsight, I don't see why my parents were so against NS, but hindsight is always 20/20.

OneGoodSon

[JR8]

Don't need a lesson; by definition we're all pioneering emigrants here.

[offshoreoildude]

When we emigrated halfway through my JC, the reason we gave was we were going for vacation. My classmates knew I was emigrating, but not my teachers. Both my dad and I had return air tickets to prove I was coming back after the Xmas break.

Ouch.

No one said emigrating is easy. Actually if I had known how hard it was in the beginning, we might have just stayed back in Singapore. However by then the wheels were set in motion, and we couldn't turn back, especially for my case. We already sold our flat, my dad was in the process of renouncing, etc.

I have known families who have packed their bags and gone back to Singapore because they found it so tough in the first few years. Of course they didn't have NS liable sons, so it wasn't an issue. If the Singapore government relaxes a bit, I think it will have an opposite effect. Instead of "fearing" people leave due to NS or whatever issues, let them leave. Once they find out how hard it is in western countries to survive, they'll come right back. Except for people like me, we can't. This just increased our resolve to "make it work" in our new country. Now 20+ years later, finally things are looking good - professional job and growing family. Long journey, if you ask me.

I'll give a few reasons why emigration is hard. So for those thinking about it, here they are:
1) Culture and language - there will always be racism (against you)
2) Weather - much colder than Singapore in some areas
3) Food - potatoes anyone?
4) Jobs - very difficult for new immigrants to get decent professional jobs
5) Cannot go back to Singapore again - in my case. Of course the Singapore I remember in the 80's was one with Singlish spoken everywhere.

Just my two cents. Now in hindsight, I don't see why my parents were so against NS, but hindsight is always 20/20.

OneGoodSon

Thankyou a lot for your posts. Much appreciated. I've never been an advocate of immigration although I am the descendant on one - my view is stay in your home country and make it work. Your parents missed out on at least two decades of solid growth in Singapore and the region by leaving in the 80's.

[Mad Scientist]

I like yourself have and am living in three continent in a year. I have been doing this for more than 15 years now.
I have two boys whom I did go thru the proper channel of renouncing their SG citizenship. I toe the line and jump over hoops to make sure my boys future will not be jeopardize by something stupid that I have done in the spur of the moment.
Yes, we adapt to our new country and my principle in life is "Once you decided to go for it, thick or thin, you make it work or you die trying.
No one says life is a breeze living in a new country but if I had the chance to do it again , I will do it without second thought.
SG Gahmen is not stupid and they realise that many Sger left SG in droves but the constitution is set in stone, there is not one bit you can do about it.
You are not the first and not the last. There are many more capable and bright ex-Sger that are not able to step back to SG for this very issues of NS liabilities.
SG Gahmen did not hold you to ransom neither did they force you to leave but if you intend to leave , do it properly or else it will bite you on your bum later in life.

Now your problems
1, If you have returned to SG using US PP then consider that you are fortunate not being caught at border control
2. If you intent to make a habit of going back then basically you are playing Russian Roulette
3. If you intent to solve this issues, you must consider this ; if you are not going to work nor return often, forget about contacting Mindef or CMPB
4. if that is not the case then contact CMPB and resolve this via e-mail
5. Once your case is being attend to , ICA is alerted hence there goes your under the radar cover
6. A fine is confirm.
7. NS liabilities is no longer on you but NS defaulting still hangs on your head and it is a crime punishable by law.
6. Jail term is a possibilities and under this penal code there is no avenue of community service work
7. Going by the current rate $5K upward and six to One year jail is possible

I cannot help you on on this CMPB things as I am no longer have any relation with them hence I am giving you a general perspective on how this can be played out

[OneGoodSon]

Ouch.

No one said emigrating is easy. Actually if I had known how hard it was in the beginning, we might have just stayed back in Singapore. However by then the wheels were set in motion, and we couldn't turn back, especially for my case. We already sold our flat, my dad was in the process of renouncing, etc.

I have known families who have packed their bags and gone back to Singapore because they found it so tough in the first few years. Of course they didn't have NS liable sons, so it wasn't an issue. If the Singapore government relaxes a bit, I think it will have an opposite effect. Instead of "fearing" people leave due to NS or whatever issues, let them leave. Once they find out how hard it is in western countries to survive, they'll come right back. Except for people like me, we can't. This just increased our resolve to "make it work" in our new country. Now 20+ years later, finally things are looking good - professional job and growing family. Long journey, if you ask me.

I'll give a few reasons why emigration is hard. So for those thinking about it, here they are:
1) Culture and language - there will always be racism (against you)
2) Weather - much colder than Singapore in some areas
3) Food - potatoes anyone?
4) Jobs - very difficult for new immigrants to get decent professional jobs
5) Cannot go back to Singapore again - in my case. Of course the Singapore I remember in the 80's was one with Singlish spoken everywhere.

Just my two cents. Now in hindsight, I don't see why my parents were so against NS, but hindsight is always 20/20.

OneGoodSon

Thankyou a lot for your posts. Much appreciated. I've never been an advocate of immigration although I am the descendant on one - my view is stay in your home country and make it work. Your parents missed out on at least two decades of solid growth in Singapore and the region by leaving in the 80's.

Anytime. Just wanted to share my own perspectives after 20+ years away from Singapore. Growth in the region is real. But growth in many parts of the world also. Here in the US, growth (some areas) tied to stocks and houses with land.

[OneGoodSon]

I like yourself have and am living in three continent in a year. I have been doing this for more than 15 years now.
I have two boys whom I did go thru the proper channel of renouncing their SG citizenship. I toe the line and jump over hoops to make sure my boys future will not be jeopardize by something stupid that I have done in the spur of the moment.
Yes, we adapt to our new country and my principle in life is "Once you decided to go for it, thick or thin, you make it work or you die trying.
No one says life is a breeze living in a new country but if I had the chance to do it again , I will do it without second thought.
SG Gahmen is not stupid and they realise that many Sger left SG in droves but the constitution is set in stone, there is not one bit you can do about it.
You are not the first and not the last. There are many more capable and bright ex-Sger that are not able to step back to SG for this very issues of NS liabilities.
SG Gahmen did not hold you to ransom neither did they force you to leave but if you intend to leave , do it properly or else it will bite you on your bum later in life.

Now your problems
1, If you have returned to SG using US PP then consider that you are fortunate not being caught at border control
2. If you intent to make a habit of going back then basically you are playing Russian Roulette
3. If you intent to solve this issues, you must consider this ; if you are not going to work nor return often, forget about contacting Mindef or CMPB
4. if that is not the case then contact CMPB and resolve this via e-mail
5. Once your case is being attend to , ICA is alerted hence there goes your under the radar cover
6. A fine is confirm.
7. NS liabilities is no longer on you but NS defaulting still hangs on your head and it is a crime punishable by law.
6. Jail term is a possibilities and under this penal code there is no avenue of community service work
7. Going by the current rate $5K upward and six to One year jail is possible

I cannot help you on on this CMPB things as I am no longer have any relation with them hence I am giving you a general perspective on how this can be played out

Thanks MS for taking your time and effort to respond to my posts.

You confirmed what I had been expecting. I was hoping for a change in the absurd government policies after so many years. Alright I'll probably leave this alone and lay low for the next few years/decades until something happens in Singapore such as significant change in leadership, ruling party, or policies.

See you when I'm 70 years old in Singapore.

[offshoreoildude]

I can think of 7+ ways for you to get into Singapore. Some have a better chance than others.

1. Become a diplomat for the USA. Diplomatic immunity applies. You could also be an APEC / UN delegate - they have Dip Imm as well.
2. Join the US Navy and wait til you have a cruise past Singapore. From what I understand USN personnel do not identify themselves to Singapore Immi. They are under the control of the Shore Patrol.
2A - look into Seamen's passes.... something different about them to a normal PP.
3. Change your name - you left a long time ago before biometrics became common but I'm not sure if your finger print is on record? If so - cut your hands or thumb off.
4. Swim in (reverse Mas Selamat). Getting out will be a challenge.
5. Pay someone who looks a bit like you to come in on your old Singapore PP and serve the sentence (don't laugh - a very recent case came up where clearly someone was paid and suceeded serving a sentence in Changi for a crim).
6. Marry LKY's daughter.
7. Change your name AND your gender.... females are not called up for NS. Even if actually sentenced you'll be in the women's prison.
8. Finally the absolute fool proof way - come in as a corpse once you've passed.

I would not assume you won't be jailed even at 70+ btw.

[sundaymorningstaple]

The last one is probably true, but you cannot be caned once you pass, I believe, 50 years of age.

[x9200]

Diplomatic immunity does not mean he can freely enter the country. I believe even if he was designated for an ambassador to Singapore, Singapore gov. has to accept the letter of credence and it can also in principle get rejected.

[OneGoodSon]

I can think of 7+ ways for you to get into Singapore. Some have a better chance than others.

1. Become a diplomat for the USA. Diplomatic immunity applies. You could also be an APEC / UN delegate - they have Dip Imm as well.
2. Join the US Navy and wait til you have a cruise past Singapore. From what I understand USN personnel do not identify themselves to Singapore Immi. They are under the control of the Shore Patrol.
2A - look into Seamen's passes.... something different about them to a normal PP.
3. Change your name - you left a long time ago before biometrics became common but I'm not sure if your finger print is on record? If so - cut your hands or thumb off.
4. Swim in (reverse Mas Selamat). Getting out will be a challenge.
5. Pay someone who looks a bit like you to come in on your old Singapore PP and serve the sentence (don't laugh - a very recent case came up where clearly someone was paid and suceeded serving a sentence in Changi for a crim).
6. Marry LKY's daughter.
7. Change your name AND your gender.... females are not called up for NS. Even if actually sentenced you'll be in the women's prison.
8. Finally the absolute fool proof way - come in as a corpse once you've passed.

I would not assume you won't be jailed even at 70+ btw.

Good one. Gave me quite a laugh when I read it. Thanks offshoreoildude.

I think you forgot two:
9. When LKY goes under the ground, and when LHL gets booted out of office.
10. If there is a mass pardon for people in my status. In the 1970's, the US president pardoned those draft dodgers from the Vietnam war.

Singapore, in my opinion, has the potential to become a very good place to live. Right now the politics is too one-sided. Scare tactics do not work well over the long term.

OneGoodSon

[offshoreoildude]

I can think of 7+ ways for you to get into Singapore. Some have a better chance than others.

1. Become a diplomat for the USA. Diplomatic immunity applies. You could also be an APEC / UN delegate - they have Dip Imm as well.
2. Join the US Navy and wait til you have a cruise past Singapore. From what I understand USN personnel do not identify themselves to Singapore Immi. They are under the control of the Shore Patrol.
2A - look into Seamen's passes.... something different about them to a normal PP.
3. Change your name - you left a long time ago before biometrics became common but I'm not sure if your finger print is on record? If so - cut your hands or thumb off.
4. Swim in (reverse Mas Selamat). Getting out will be a challenge.
5. Pay someone who looks a bit like you to come in on your old Singapore PP and serve the sentence (don't laugh - a very recent case came up where clearly someone was paid and suceeded serving a sentence in Changi for a crim).
6. Marry LKY's daughter.
7. Change your name AND your gender.... females are not called up for NS. Even if actually sentenced you'll be in the women's prison.
8. Finally the absolute fool proof way - come in as a corpse once you've passed.

I would not assume you won't be jailed even at 70+ btw.

Good one. Gave me quite a laugh when I read it. Thanks offshoreoildude.

I think you forgot two:
9. When LKY goes under the ground, and when LHL gets booted out of office.
10. If there is a mass pardon for people in my status. In the 1970's, the US president pardoned those draft dodgers from the Vietnam war.

Singapore, in my opinion, has the potential to become a very good place to live. Right now the politics is too one-sided. Scare tactics do not work well over the long term.

OneGoodSon

9. won't happen in your life time though - way too much cronyism in the PAP.
10. This might actually happen - there would need to be a critical mass of NS defaulters and their supporters...

[therat]

11. employ an hacker to hack the system to easer your record.

[Mad Scientist]

Scare tactics doe snot work in other countries maybe true but not in Singapore.
First and foremost everybody is watching everybody like the East Germans use to do.
Secondly, the Gahmen has the money to do it
Thirdly the "first family" does not even trust their own security to protect them aka Gurkha Bn"
Even if you died and shipped to Singapore in a coffin , you ain't got one bit of chance to step in here. A few have done that and failed. Remember Devan Nair?
Pressing for maximum punishment to make an example for would be is a norm in here
The whole system is well documented and guided from the word "get go"
It has been inculcated and doctrinated to make everyone toe the line.
If they can change the Constitution to suit their own needs , they have done so long time ago unfortunately there was a President Decree that safeguard this.

[OneGoodSon]

Scare tactics doe snot work in other countries maybe true but not in Singapore.
First and foremost everybody is watching everybody like the East Germans use to do.
Secondly, the Gahmen has the money to do it
Thirdly the "first family" does not even trust their own security to protect them aka Gurkha Bn"
Even if you died and shipped to Singapore in a coffin , you ain't got one bit of chance to step in here. A few have done that and failed. Remember Devan Nair?
Pressing for maximum punishment to make an example for would be is a norm in here
The whole system is well documented and guided from the word "get go"
It has been inculcated and doctrinated to make everyone toe the line.
If they can change the Constitution to suit their own needs , they have done so long time ago unfortunately there was a President Decree that safeguard this.

Things are changing much faster today than in the 80's. Social media and the Internet must be opening up the eyes of Singaporeans. With their new found wealth, many are traveling abroad and seeing things in other places that would be good for Singapore. Things like free speech and freedom.

The Singapore government might be smart, but Singaporeans are not stupid. Many of my friends who are still there are feeling frustrated with the recent turn of events in the city state. Of course they have to keep quiet otherwise they'll get into trouble, as some of them work in the government also.

I'm not saying things will change immediately or soon. My hope is that the Singaporean people would be less oppressed going forward. I'm not saying they are unhappy, but they probably have that nagging feeling that somehow things are a bit off in the city state, starting from an overbearing government. Now how change happens for the better is anybody's guess.

[Mad Scientist]

The Singapore government might be smart, but Singaporeans are not stupid. Many of my friends who are still there are feeling frustrated with the recent turn of events in the city state. Of course they have to keep quiet otherwise they'll get into trouble, as some of them work in the government also.

You said it in your own words. They are upset but scared which means they've got no balls to make a change. These phenomenon equates to memememe syndrome. Those who dares to challenge is either exiled, left or incarcerated.
Changes does not come from the gahmen but the people and changes must comes from oneself. If you are back against the walls, you either die or come out fighting..
The recent political landscape which the end result of the last election has been brewing for many years. Scared to lose or kiasuim in its own mentality is the one that kills this very own changes
I, like many have served the NS, the ministries and having worked with the gahmen, one will realise it is either their way or the highway.
I chose the latter hence I have come to grips that it will take more than the people's will to change the political landscape.
Like I said you will not be the first nor the last one that has spoken about it or gone thru this. I have seen far more heartbreaking stories with no solution in sight.
We will try our best to point you to the right direction or gives above the board solution and you can take it from there. There is no point it taking issues that you have no control over it.