i'm a second gen singaporean (my dad didn't have to do NS of course) and did my NS way before you did.disenchanted wrote:...My point here is that being subjected to military system, if you're impatient to live your own life and build your own things, is very destructive no matter how light your vocation might be and being completely out of control of my own life was genuinely traumatizing...
Once again, we're missing the point here. It's not whether military should change or a bidding on which country has a more screwed up army. I personally know that the SAF is fairly moderate but I don't hide I hate being inside of it anyways. I don't want to change the inherent characteristics of their doctrine. I don't buy any of it and simply want to finally get out.taxico wrote:i'm a second gen singaporean (my dad didn't have to do NS of course) and did my NS way before you did.disenchanted wrote:...My point here is that being subjected to military system, if you're impatient to live your own life and build your own things, is very destructive no matter how light your vocation might be and being completely out of control of my own life was genuinely traumatizing...
you cannot expect a lack of regimentation in the military. this doesn't mean the singapore NS system doesn't allow you to do anything but "military stuff."
if you had enlisted in the south korean army (except in the KATUSA), you'd know what "subjected to military system" means.
like they say in prison, do the time and don't let the time do you.
my men have completed degrees, diplomas and accountancy courses during their 2/2.5 year duration in NS. i even had a young man that was a father of a <1 year old infant.
BUT if you expect to be given time off and lee way to do your stuff when you want to (like a civilian), then you're SOL.
The flip side of this is NOT having your son do NS and whisking him out of the country before induction. You would complete burn one of his bridges in the future in a place that is a hub for all of SE Asia. He would be considered an NS dodger and would be flagged in all the computer systems in Singapore so even if he tried coming back for a visit he would be picked up. Also, with the world as small as it is today, we need all the bridges we can get. It would be sad to finished your university and get a nice job with an MNC and in a few years been offered a plum position to head up a new division in Singapore. Oops!. Sorry sir, I cannot accept that advancement as I am AWOL from the Singapore military so cannot enter the country.disenchanted wrote: What we're talking about is whether the guy who started the thread fully realizes what it means to dedicate himself or his future potential sons to Singapore. He still has a choice and I just want to make it clear that given his situation, he might choose differently and avoid all of that joy/misery altogether.
Could you please elaborate on this alleged lethality of the system especially as a direct on indirect effect of the character of the education system, and maybe also on these barriers to entry?disenchanted wrote:A lot has been spoken about how business friendly this country is. But I have a little correction. Its INVESTOR friendly. If you already have a huge capital and want to expand overseas, Singapore is a like a sponge that will gladly accept anything that generates revenue. But the environment for local entrepreneurs is lethal. 'Our' education system destroys individualism and creativity since pre-school. The government keeps domination over a lot of industries (like media and transportation) and barriers to entry are worse than you think.
Well I just wonder - why won't you just accept that not everyone has the same reflections and experiences on NS as yourself? Before enlisting I was trying to find out any useful information both online and from my seniors and all I ever came across was the sort of 'its fun, you'll make friends and become a man' BS. So yes, I will pay the price of appearing a little whiny b***h just to warn those who still have a choice.taxico wrote:my point is: singapore NS isn't as bad as you make it out to be right now. you'll find that out when you're older.disenchanted wrote:Once again, we're missing the point here...
You think that all that can be done is be fired? Boy do you have a lot to learn.disenchanted wrote:So yes, I will pay the price of appearing a little whiny b***h just to warn those who still have a choice.
You have certainly got the appearance part right.
To me it a sheer waste of time while being dependent on a bunch of abusive lunatics with a higher rank. And don't tell me its 'the same as working life' (I get that a lot whenever I bitch about the army) because in working life the most they can do is fire you instead of jailing you.
With pleasure. Firstly, the education system is rigid and regimented. Not even 'disciplined' which is perfectly fine, but it seems like a boot camp for kids.x9200 wrote:Could you please elaborate on this alleged lethality of the system especially as a direct on indirect effect of the character of the education system, and maybe also on these barriers to entry?disenchanted wrote:A lot has been spoken about how business friendly this country is. But I have a little correction. Its INVESTOR friendly. If you already have a huge capital and want to expand overseas, Singapore is a like a sponge that will gladly accept anything that generates revenue. But the environment for local entrepreneurs is lethal. 'Our' education system destroys individualism and creativity since pre-school. The government keeps domination over a lot of industries (like media and transportation) and barriers to entry are worse than you think.
You know what, I'm sick of this discussion. Its not like I get paid for preaching here or I have nothing better to do. All I wanted to do is to save the poor TS disappointments. I learnt this place is NOT for me the hard way. But apparently you just like it here sooo much you can't accept anybody thinking differently. Oh yeah, I forgot, I'm not supposed to.sundaymorningstaple wrote:You think that all that can be done is be fired? Boy do you have a lot to learn.disenchanted wrote:So yes, I will pay the price of appearing a little whiny b***h just to warn those who still have a choice.
You have certainly got the appearance part right.
To me it a sheer waste of time while being dependent on a bunch of abusive lunatics with a higher rank. And don't tell me its 'the same as working life' (I get that a lot whenever I bitch about the army) because in working life the most they can do is fire you instead of jailing you.
This guy didn't like what he was being made to do and decided he wanted to quit. Still waiting to see the outcome......
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/afbddb44-7640 ... z2L2LkOnA0
Also plenty of instances of being involved with bosses who are doing shady dealings and get caught. They, and their accomplices tend to do heavy fines and often jail terms.
I know you don't like this, but there is only one thing to say. Grow Up.
Well said. Probably the most balanced thing I've heard here so far.Wd40 wrote:I think its a well established fact, that given a choice, majority of people, including parents as well as kids will opt out of NS. I mean parents who have done NS will rather not have their children do it. So, given a choice, when someone doesnt want to do it, it clearly indicates that there is more to lose(2 years of your life) than to gain.
When people tell you, you make friends, you become disciplined and you gain a lot of out it. They are just telling you that its not a completely waste of time and you do eventually get "something" out of it. This I feel, people say as a "Glass half full" approach or "look at the brighter side of it" approach.
There was a conversation in my office, 1 person was a Singaporean who just came from the yearly 3-4 weeks NS service. An Indian PR who has a 2nd gen PR son but not yet of NS age, went upto the Singaporean and asked him, here's the main part of the conversation
Indian PR: Hey, I thinking what to do about my son, he will have to serve NS. I am not sure if it is worth it
Singaporean: It is good you know, he will make friends, learn lots of things....
Indian PR: But, how do I justify the loss of 2 critical years of his life. When his friends will all move ahead of him.
Singaporean: That is a fact of life.
When I heard that, I actually felt sorry for the Singaporean and was a bit angry at the Indian PR to bring us such a sensitive stuff in such a brash way.
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