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New property cooling measures

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Sergei82
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Postby Sergei82 » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 9:43 pm

offshoreoildude wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:
Wd40 wrote:But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.



Anyone seriously looking to make Singapore their home as PR would not care too much about the extra 5% as PR. Supposedly on a longterm investement of 20, 30, 40yrs or a lifetime the 5% could come to a few cents per day.

It is the ones looking to dupe the system or flip in 3, 5 or 7yrs that will be, and should be put off.


5% on $1MM is $50,000 - and it has to be paid in cash, That's the rub.


Cash upfront, the bank won't finance this as part of the overall loan? Wow.


I don't believe so. The hardest part for a PR (without much CPF) is raising the deposit (cash component). In my case it was over $200,000 - the value of one of my landed houses in Australia!

How long ago there were such prices in Australia?


I'm selling one for $215,000 right now - you can have it for AUD$190,000 as you're Russian.

http://realestate.watoday.com.au/overvi ... elly-6308/

Can you ask somebody to explain you the difference between Russians and Ukrainians?


Yes - they told me Russians are blonde haired and blue eyed and Ukrainians are blue eyed and blonde haired. I think I have it now,

yes, the guy on the avatar to the left is blue eyed blonde, definitely :)

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Sergei82
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Postby Sergei82 » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 9:48 pm

I'm sorry, I'm not posting twice intentionally, its my stupid phone… :)

offshoreoildude
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Postby offshoreoildude » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 10:34 pm

Sergei82 wrote:I'm sorry, I'm not posting twice intentionally, its my stupid phone… :)


Maybe it has to post once for the Russian Ukrainian and then again for the Ukrainian Russian?
Now I'm called PNGMK

thailand_hero
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Postby thailand_hero » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 6:44 am

I cannot understand why the govt allows bank to loan up to 35 years but they have to resort to cooling measures to prevent a bubble.

Just reduce the maximum years allowed for a loan and the whole thing comes down

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 8:20 am

This is probably one of the worst thing they could do. It will have a very minimal impact on the current property market (people would still take and get the loan) but at the same time many of them will not be able to afford it (shorter or longer term). And this will be mostly for those looking for their first home.
IMHO they should focus on speculative selling/buying so for example if you sell within 10y from buying there will be a huge tax to pay waiting for you. Of course with some grace period for the upgraders. And similarly for owning more than one private property per family.

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Postby Wd40 » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:37 pm

I think the biggest mistake Singapore has been doing is to keep intervene in the public housing market and no sound policy in place. They have been making changes right from the beginning, like 1st allowing PRs to buy, when they shouldnt have and now doing U turn.

Its good that Singapore encourages home ownership by public housing, but it is doing it the wrong way. The correct way should have been HDBs should never be allowed to sell in the resale market, that itself means that it will cause asset price inflation. Public housing is meant for exactly that just for housing and not for investment. Instead HDB flat should be returned to HDB if and when the owner wants to upgrade. This would mean HDB themselves are in control of valuation.

Also HDB should have never been allowed to rent out at all. Foreigners or locals who need to rent HDB should be doing it directly from HDB, just like how JTC flats works right now.

This would have been the right way to manage public housing. But, currently the property market is a mess, but its the greed of the locals that has brought their own downfall.

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Sergei82
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Postby Sergei82 » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:43 pm

Wd40 wrote:I think the biggest mistake Singapore has been doing is to keep intervene in the public housing market and no sound policy in place. They have been making changes right from the beginning, like 1st allowing PRs to buy, when they shouldnt have and now doing U turn.

Its good that Singapore encourages home ownership by public housing, but it is doing it the wrong way. The correct way should have been HDBs should never be allowed to sell in the resale market, that itself means that it will cause asset price inflation. Public housing is meant for exactly that just for housing and not for investment. Instead HDB flat should be returned to HDB if and when the owner wants to upgrade. This would mean HDB themselves are in control of valuation.

Also HDB should have never been allowed to rent out at all. Foreigners or locals who need to rent HDB should be doing it directly from HDB, just like how JTC flats works right now.

This would have been the right way to manage public housing. But, currently the property market is a mess, but its the greed of the locals that has brought their own downfall.

You're going towards USSR: all flats are allotted by the government, you cannot buy! 8-)

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wwww
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Postby wwww » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 2:08 pm

Wd40 wrote:I think the biggest mistake Singapore has been doing is to keep intervene in the public housing market and no sound policy in place. They have been making changes right from the beginning, like 1st allowing PRs to buy, when they shouldnt have and now doing U turn.

Its good that Singapore encourages home ownership by public housing, but it is doing it the wrong way. The correct way should have been HDBs should never be allowed to sell in the resale market, that itself means that it will cause asset price inflation. Public housing is meant for exactly that just for housing and not for investment. Instead HDB flat should be returned to HDB if and when the owner wants to upgrade. This would mean HDB themselves are in control of valuation.

Also HDB should have never been allowed to rent out at all. Foreigners or locals who need to rent HDB should be doing it directly from HDB, just like how JTC flats works right now.

This would have been the right way to manage public housing. But, currently the property market is a mess, but its the greed of the locals that has brought their own downfall.


Someone has recently proposed a NOM system (non open market flat) in addition to the current HDB system, which would address some of your points mentioned. The government should introduce it to provide true non-frills housing for the masses, which was its purpose in the first place and abolish the EC scheme instead. If you can afford a condo you should not receive gahment housing subsidies IMHO.

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 3:26 pm

wwww wrote:If you can afford a condo you should not receive gahment housing subsidies IMHO.



Who's to say you can afford or not? One person picks a S$6m condo near Orchard and the government points to a S$800k one near Kranji.

The fact is, if you have a legal entitlement as a citizen or PR then finished. It is up to the government to decide if citizens, as a whole, are entitled of whether others such as PR are entitled as well.

Personally I think it is a mistake to have allowed PR to buy HDB given they should be aware of prices and cost of living before landing on the shores but the ship sailed a long time ago.

With regards TRE, nothing said on there as supposedly from PRs that has not been said also by SC already. It's not rocket science afterall.
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'

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Postby morenangpinay » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 6:29 pm

well i thought the link wasn't allowed so i didnt post it. so thanks OSOD for posting it.

obviously they twist everything to make them seem right! that were talentless and blood sucking foreigners.

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Postby Mi Amigo » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 6:50 pm

morenangpinay wrote:obviously they twist everything to make them seem right! that were talentless and blood sucking foreigners.

That was my point (and disappointment) - there are a few people on there who seem to get the concept of (relatively) reasoned debate, but many others who seem to have a completely polarised, one-dimensioned view, namely: All SCs are angels who never do anything wrong; and all foreigners are parasites who should leave tomorrow, then everything will be OK. The sad thing is that these people fail to comprehend that most of us 'foreign trash' (as they so charmingly label us) are as disgusted as they are about PRs and pass holders abusing the system. We don't like it either, partly because it's wrong, but also because it gives 'foreigners' a bad image and makes our lives more difficult than it would otherwise be. It's truly depressing to see the way these things always descend to the lowest common denominator level, akin to a kindergarten playground squabble.

Edit to add: The 'discussion guidelines' for the TRE site state: "Please refrain from intentionally using language that are [sic] libelous, defamatory, obscene, abusive and/or discriminates on the basis of race, religion, nationality, gender, sexual preference, age, region, disability, etc." Presumably they need to add a caveat that it's OK to be as abusive as you like towards foreigners, given that such behaviour appears to be condoned. How else would it be possible for a comment calling for "a concerted effort to exterminate these parasitic scums" (that I mentioned in another thread) to be allowed to stand?

This is my last word on the matter; far too many other (more positive and beneficial) things to do with my time.
Last edited by Mi Amigo on Thu, 17 Jan 2013 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Be careful what you wish for

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Wd40
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Postby Wd40 » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 7:11 pm

Sergei82 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:I think the biggest mistake Singapore has been doing is to keep intervene in the public housing market and no sound policy in place. They have been making changes right from the beginning, like 1st allowing PRs to buy, when they shouldnt have and now doing U turn.

Its good that Singapore encourages home ownership by public housing, but it is doing it the wrong way. The correct way should have been HDBs should never be allowed to sell in the resale market, that itself means that it will cause asset price inflation. Public housing is meant for exactly that just for housing and not for investment. Instead HDB flat should be returned to HDB if and when the owner wants to upgrade. This would mean HDB themselves are in control of valuation.

Also HDB should have never been allowed to rent out at all. Foreigners or locals who need to rent HDB should be doing it directly from HDB, just like how JTC flats works right now.

This would have been the right way to manage public housing. But, currently the property market is a mess, but its the greed of the locals that has brought their own downfall.

You're going towards USSR: all flats are allotted by the government, you cannot buy! 8-)


It's already a bit like ussr here with the 99year leasehold and hdb being public housing.

The irony about the Singaporean housing policy is that on one hand they are trying to help citizens with subsidised public housing whereas on the other hand they are allowing foreigners to buy private property in this land scarse country. These both although may seem to not affect each other but in reality it does. The rise in condo prices affect hdb prices as well. They should have never let foreigners to buy residential property, if they were serious about keeping property prices affordable.


But as far as I know they initially encouraged home ownership by showing that their asset values will appreciate. So for the 1st gen Singaporeans it was an awesome thing they saw their wealth grow and able to upgrade to condo etc. but now this very same idea is the cause of headache for the gahmen, that in the past actually helped them gain a lot of support.

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 17 Jan 2013 7:26 pm

Wd40 wrote:They should have never let foreigners to buy residential property, if they were serious about keeping property prices affordable.



Or they could go the whole hog and ban foreign residents altogether. You know, and all tourists need prior vetting, and being escorted in-country by a state tour-guide 24/7.

Like North Korea, or Vietnam in the 80s. property there is still affordable, so the policy must work.

:wink:

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Postby offshoreoildude » Fri, 18 Jan 2013 9:32 am

Personally I think HDB should be privatized or shut down. It's purpose is served now.
Now I'm called PNGMK

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Postby movingtospore » Fri, 18 Jan 2013 5:26 pm

nakatago wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
JR8 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
morenangpinay wrote:seems that you guys are famous once again. The (TREsh talk only) made a whole blog post bout you PRs discussing how to bypass the new law lol


http://www.tremeritus.com/2013/01/13/prs-discuss-ways-to-bypass-new-hdb-restrictions/

You notice they don't post some of the comments (specifically mine) stating the opposite view?


They quote ME! :o :???:

As writing "Simple: 'One room lock' ah"

What they fail to see is, I was writing it in Singlish, I.E. as a Singaporean might. Not as a PR would.

And I am not a PR.

And I don't even live in Singapore.

And I own no property in Singapore, and never have.

So, 100% FAIL!


And "Technically" neither am I a PR.

Image


These people don't get sarcasm. Opposite day would be disastrous for them.


Hysterical!


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