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New property cooling measures

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offshoreoildude
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Postby offshoreoildude » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 8:08 pm

Sergei82 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:
Wd40 wrote:But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.



Anyone seriously looking to make Singapore their home as PR would not care too much about the extra 5% as PR. Supposedly on a longterm investement of 20, 30, 40yrs or a lifetime the 5% could come to a few cents per day.

It is the ones looking to dupe the system or flip in 3, 5 or 7yrs that will be, and should be put off.


5% on $1MM is $50,000 - and it has to be paid in cash, That's the rub.


Cash upfront, the bank won't finance this as part of the overall loan? Wow.


I don't believe so. The hardest part for a PR (without much CPF) is raising the deposit (cash component). In my case it was over $200,000 - the value of one of my landed houses in Australia!

How long ago there were such prices in Australia?


I'm selling one for $215,000 right now - you can have it for AUD$190,000 as you're Russian.

http://realestate.watoday.com.au/overvi ... elly-6308/

Can you ask somebody to explain you the difference between Russians and Ukrainians?


I'd ask you but you'll just give be the Russian speaking Ukrainian version ;) [Or is the Ukrainian soeaking Russian version). This reminds me of trying to explain to people that my mother is a Sudetenlander... no one directly affected actually cares that ethnic Germans (13MM) were ethnically cleansed out of Czechoslovakia at the end of the war - although now the Czech's have joined the EU.... hmmm
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ScoobyDoes
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Postby ScoobyDoes » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:49 am

JR8 wrote:Stamp Duty is a tax on mobility that reduces liquidity in the market, and fuels price rises.



It is not the ABSD itself that will cause a problem with mobility but the loan to value ratios on second, third, etc. properties.

I'm sure some sort of bridging services between selling and buying is or will be available. The important thing would be timing, of course, and selling one before buying another if liquidity is a problem.
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Postby texasthefg » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:04 pm

offshoreoildude wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:One more example of how non permanent PR's scamming of the system cause hardship and restrictions for those that take their PR seriously.

I can see how the game works. Get PR as quickly as you can. Buy and HDB flat and rent it out while moving back to home country. Enjoy the income without being part of Singapore.


Well, the new rules really hurt and I am ok with the rule that PRs not being allowed to rent out their flat, as a measure to stop abuse, although I dont think the abuse itself had any role to play in the rising property prices. The number of PRs who are renting out their HDB is just too little. What this rule will do though is reduce the supply of rental units even more and cause rentals to escalate further.

But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.

UNFAIR? Are you on drugs man? You think PR's should be entitled without additional cost to subsidized public housing? Get real or get out. It's PR's like you that are screwing it up for us. Gimmee gimmee gimmeee - I'm GLAD you're not buying here. Just piss off out of Singapore ASAP.


nice rant - but based on an incorrect assumption. PRs cant buy subsidised HDB, they can only buy resale hdb. Price for resale HDB like private property is dictated by the market - no gov subsides apply those are enjoyed only by the 1st owner (citizen). Should a PR have to pay higher GST? how about higher income tax?
Cooling measures are needed - im just not sure its fair to discriminate agaist PRs with a higher % than citizens when it comes to such a tax.

offshoreoildude
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Postby offshoreoildude » Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:25 pm

texasthefg wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:One more example of how non permanent PR's scamming of the system cause hardship and restrictions for those that take their PR seriously.

I can see how the game works. Get PR as quickly as you can. Buy and HDB flat and rent it out while moving back to home country. Enjoy the income without being part of Singapore.


Well, the new rules really hurt and I am ok with the rule that PRs not being allowed to rent out their flat, as a measure to stop abuse, although I dont think the abuse itself had any role to play in the rising property prices. The number of PRs who are renting out their HDB is just too little. What this rule will do though is reduce the supply of rental units even more and cause rentals to escalate further.

But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.

UNFAIR? Are you on drugs man? You think PR's should be entitled without additional cost to subsidized public housing? Get real or get out. It's PR's like you that are screwing it up for us. Gimmee gimmee gimmeee - I'm GLAD you're not buying here. Just piss off out of Singapore ASAP.


nice rant - but based on an incorrect assumption. PRs cant buy subsidised HDB, they can only buy resale hdb. Price for resale HDB like private property is dictated by the market - no gov subsides apply those are enjoyed only by the 1st owner (citizen). Should a PR have to pay higher GST? how about higher income tax?
Cooling measures are needed - im just not sure its fair to discriminate agaist PRs with a higher % than citizens when it comes to such a tax.


The entire HDB system is subsidized - why the heck do you think there's a difference in pricing between resale HDB and resale condo of the same size and location and title? (leasehold) - the facilities are not enough to account for the difference - it's due to the starting price and HDB starts lower due to subsidies. Why are the maintenance fees on HDB so low? Partially subsidized. Why is the overall protection of the HDB system from foreigners in place? It's partially subsidized. Why are there never any outright figures published about the costs of a HDB flat? Because it's partially subsidized AND makes money for the PAP govert.

It's perfectly fair to discriminate against PR's - plenty of countries do it. Whether it has the desired effect is another matter though.
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Postby thailand_hero » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 6:56 am

The reason for these measures is that the govt wants to prevent a bubble. I am happy that the govt is making the changes easy for Singaporeans and making pr and foreigners incur the brunt of cost.

The only thing I cannot stomach is that the second property a Singaporean owns will be subject to buyer stamp duty.

When a Singaporean buys a new home to upgrade he will be viewed as a second property whilst pending sale of his existing home.

This is the most absurd. I wrote a letter to the pmo but haven't got a reply.

offshoreoildude
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Postby offshoreoildude » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 8:34 am

thailand_hero wrote:The reason for these measures is that the govt wants to prevent a bubble. I am happy that the govt is making the changes easy for Singaporeans and making pr and foreigners incur the brunt of cost.

The only thing I cannot stomach is that the second property a Singaporean owns will be subject to buyer stamp duty.

When a Singaporean buys a new home to upgrade he will be viewed as a second property whilst pending sale of his existing home.

This is the most absurd. I wrote a letter to the pmo but haven't got a reply.


I agree on that point... it goes against the grain of the idea of helping SC improve their position in the RE market.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 9:34 am

Actually, I thingk the measures are not designed to "help SC improve their position" but to help Singaporeans to own their home to live in, rather than buying it to just sell in a couple of years for a profit (flipping).

offshoreoildude
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Postby offshoreoildude » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 9:57 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Actually, I thingk the measures are not designed to "help SC improve their position" but to help Singaporeans to own their home to live in, rather than buying it to just sell in a couple of years for a profit (flipping).


My bad.... I was struggling to find the words to explain the posn of an SC family needing to upgrade for reasons apart from financial.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 10:23 am

offshoreoildude wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Actually, I thingk the measures are not designed to "help SC improve their position" but to help Singaporeans to own their home to live in, rather than buying it to just sell in a couple of years for a profit (flipping).


My bad.... I was struggling to find the words to explain the posn of an SC family needing to upgrade for reasons apart from financial.


helping SC to upgrade to help their expanding families? With a TFR of 1.13! Who is the Gahmen kiddin'! Should only build 3-RM flats or only allow them to buy 3-RM flats until they have the 2nd child.

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Postby Sergei82 » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 10:24 am

It really feels like by the time I decide to apply for PR, PRs will "enjoy" not more benefits than EP holders now. :)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 10:31 am

Well, about the only one (at least for the moment) is the fact that CPF draws a lot more interest than DBS/OCBC/POSB. :?

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Postby morenangpinay » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 11:16 am

off topic, but what i can't understand is why there are locals who sell their hdb and opt to rent instead? i dont understand the mentality.

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Postby the lynx » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 11:42 am

morenangpinay wrote:off topic, but what i can't understand is why there are locals who sell their hdb and opt to rent instead? i dont understand the mentality.


Instant chunk of money. Usually happens to those with short-sightedness problem. They fail to see the final amount of money spent on renting after x number of years vs the money they got from the sale.

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 2:29 pm

Please clarify some terminology for me:

It is not the ABSD itself that will cause a problem with mobility but the loan to value ratios on second, third, etc. properties.


Are we talking about the second purchase, and then third purchase, or are we talking about a second loan, and then a third loan, while still in possession of the previous properties?

If it's the former like I think you're implying, that is unfair. If it is the latter, different standards for additional loans past your first, that seems fair to me, and will help prevent a RE bubble burst like that suffered in the US and too many 'speculators' overly leveraged and saddled with half a dozen underwater loans.

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Postby Mi Amigo » Wed, 16 Jan 2013 4:07 pm

thailand_hero wrote:The reason for these measures is that the govt wants to prevent a bubble.

Er... surely a few years late for that. The question is rather whether / when the bubble will burst, but it sure as hell already exists IMO.
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