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New property cooling measures

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zzm9980
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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:51 pm

offshoreoildude wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:
Wd40 wrote:But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.



Anyone seriously looking to make Singapore their home as PR would not care too much about the extra 5% as PR. Supposedly on a longterm investement of 20, 30, 40yrs or a lifetime the 5% could come to a few cents per day.

It is the ones looking to dupe the system or flip in 3, 5 or 7yrs that will be, and should be put off.


5% on $1MM is $50,000 - and it has to be paid in cash, That's the rub.


Cash upfront, the bank won't finance this as part of the overall loan? Wow.

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:57 pm

ScoobyDoes wrote:Anyone unable to find the extra 5% shouldn't be looking to buy at any price, let alone the $1m of your example.


Really? So if the theoretical PR can't scrounge up another S$50k cash up front, on top of the S$200k down payment, (not to mention probably another S20-40k they should budget for miscellaneous costs) they shouldn't be allowed to buy?

Or are you implying there is private property somewhere on this little dot that costs under $1million that someone would actually want to live in?

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Postby ScoobyDoes » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 2:09 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:Anyone unable to find the extra 5% shouldn't be looking to buy at any price, let alone the $1m of your example.


Really? So if the theoretical PR can't scrounge up another S$50k cash up front, on top of the S$200k down payment, (not to mention probably another S20-40k they should budget for miscellaneous costs) they shouldn't be allowed to buy?

Or are you implying there is private property somewhere on this little dot that costs under $1million that someone would actually want to live in?



Not 'not allowed' but everybody seems to forget quickly where the globe's financial crisis came from......living within ones means, first and foremost.

If you sail SO close to the wind that 5% is such a major headache you are going to be in the very deepest sh!t when things go south. Your example gives the S$50k as a 20% increase and yes, it's quite a chunk but I have to go back to living within ones means. If the general populous cannot find anything suitable, then the complaint should be with the government, not me, but the priciple still applies.
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'

SIR Stirling Moss OBE

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Postby offshoreoildude » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 2:43 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:
Wd40 wrote:But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.



Anyone seriously looking to make Singapore their home as PR would not care too much about the extra 5% as PR. Supposedly on a longterm investement of 20, 30, 40yrs or a lifetime the 5% could come to a few cents per day.

It is the ones looking to dupe the system or flip in 3, 5 or 7yrs that will be, and should be put off.


5% on $1MM is $50,000 - and it has to be paid in cash, That's the rub.


Cash upfront, the bank won't finance this as part of the overall loan? Wow.


I don't believe so. The hardest part for a PR (without much CPF) is raising the deposit (cash component). In my case it was over $200,000 - the value of one of my landed houses in Australia!
Now I'm called PNGMK

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Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 3:03 pm

offshoreoildude wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:
Wd40 wrote:But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.



Anyone seriously looking to make Singapore their home as PR would not care too much about the extra 5% as PR. Supposedly on a longterm investement of 20, 30, 40yrs or a lifetime the 5% could come to a few cents per day.

It is the ones looking to dupe the system or flip in 3, 5 or 7yrs that will be, and should be put off.


5% on $1MM is $50,000 - and it has to be paid in cash, That's the rub.


Cash upfront, the bank won't finance this as part of the overall loan? Wow.


I don't believe so. The hardest part for a PR (without much CPF) is raising the deposit (cash component). In my case it was over $200,000 - the value of one of my landed houses in Australia!

How long ago there were such prices in Australia?

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 5:52 pm

ScoobyDoes wrote:I can do maths.

My point was that an extra 5% is not a huge amount for those looking to buy for the long term given that, in time, it will all even out to a few cents per day extra. Removing speculators/hoarders has to be the driving force behind price stability.

Anyone unable to find the extra 5% shouldn't be looking to buy at any price, let alone the $1m of your example.


Stamp Duty is a tax on mobility that reduces liquidity in the market, and fuels price rises.

The first four homes I owned in London were within a mile radius of each other. I 'traded up' by buying well.

The flip side is that PRs will be pressured to not move. Just greeeeat if you're now a married couple with two children having far outgrown your 2-bed 'starter home'. And now with one adult working (as opposed to the both of you you started out with), as the wife looks after the children, you are in a tax-trap.

p.s. This also strikes me as 'taxing people for their own good', but if as above you remove the good, you're just left with higher taxes.

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Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 6:36 pm

Higher taxes + lower flat price = same net value, but you can advertise it as property market cooled down. Am I getting it right? :)

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Postby offshoreoildude » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 6:45 pm

Sergei82 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:
Wd40 wrote:But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.



Anyone seriously looking to make Singapore their home as PR would not care too much about the extra 5% as PR. Supposedly on a longterm investement of 20, 30, 40yrs or a lifetime the 5% could come to a few cents per day.

It is the ones looking to dupe the system or flip in 3, 5 or 7yrs that will be, and should be put off.


5% on $1MM is $50,000 - and it has to be paid in cash, That's the rub.


Cash upfront, the bank won't finance this as part of the overall loan? Wow.


I don't believe so. The hardest part for a PR (without much CPF) is raising the deposit (cash component). In my case it was over $200,000 - the value of one of my landed houses in Australia!

How long ago there were such prices in Australia?


I'm selling one for $215,000 right now - you can have it for AUD$190,000 as you're Russian.

http://realestate.watoday.com.au/overvi ... elly-6308/
Now I'm called PNGMK

offshoreoildude
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Postby offshoreoildude » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 6:50 pm

JR8 wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:I can do maths.

My point was that an extra 5% is not a huge amount for those looking to buy for the long term given that, in time, it will all even out to a few cents per day extra. Removing speculators/hoarders has to be the driving force behind price stability.

Anyone unable to find the extra 5% shouldn't be looking to buy at any price, let alone the $1m of your example.


Stamp Duty is a tax on mobility that reduces liquidity in the market, and fuels price rises.

The first four homes I owned in London were within a mile radius of each other. I 'traded up' by buying well.

The flip side is that PRs will be pressured to not move. Just greeeeat if you're now a married couple with two children having far outgrown your 2-bed 'starter home'. And now with one adult working (as opposed to the both of you you started out with), as the wife looks after the children, you are in a tax-trap.

p.s. This also strikes me as 'taxing people for their own good', but if as above you remove the good, you're just left with higher taxes.


The Gahmen has long ceased being rational in regards to property.
Now I'm called PNGMK

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Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 7:17 pm

offshoreoildude wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:
Wd40 wrote:But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.



Anyone seriously looking to make Singapore their home as PR would not care too much about the extra 5% as PR. Supposedly on a longterm investement of 20, 30, 40yrs or a lifetime the 5% could come to a few cents per day.

It is the ones looking to dupe the system or flip in 3, 5 or 7yrs that will be, and should be put off.


5% on $1MM is $50,000 - and it has to be paid in cash, That's the rub.


Cash upfront, the bank won't finance this as part of the overall loan? Wow.


I don't believe so. The hardest part for a PR (without much CPF) is raising the deposit (cash component). In my case it was over $200,000 - the value of one of my landed houses in Australia!

How long ago there were such prices in Australia?


I'm selling one for $215,000 right now - you can have it for AUD$190,000 as you're Russian.

http://realestate.watoday.com.au/overvi ... elly-6308/

Can you ask somebody to explain you the difference between Russians and Ukrainians?

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Sergei82
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Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 7:17 pm

offshoreoildude wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
ScoobyDoes wrote:
Wd40 wrote:But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.



Anyone seriously looking to make Singapore their home as PR would not care too much about the extra 5% as PR. Supposedly on a longterm investement of 20, 30, 40yrs or a lifetime the 5% could come to a few cents per day.

It is the ones looking to dupe the system or flip in 3, 5 or 7yrs that will be, and should be put off.


5% on $1MM is $50,000 - and it has to be paid in cash, That's the rub.


Cash upfront, the bank won't finance this as part of the overall loan? Wow.


I don't believe so. The hardest part for a PR (without much CPF) is raising the deposit (cash component). In my case it was over $200,000 - the value of one of my landed houses in Australia!

How long ago there were such prices in Australia?


I'm selling one for $215,000 right now - you can have it for AUD$190,000 as you're Russian.

http://realestate.watoday.com.au/overvi ... elly-6308/

Can you ask somebody to explain you the difference between Russians and Ukrainians?

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Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 7:28 pm

JR8 wrote:Stamp Duty is a tax on mobility that reduces liquidity in the market, and fuels price rise with higher taxes.

Shouldn't absense of liquidity premium bring the price down?

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Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 7:28 pm

JR8 wrote:Stamp Duty is a tax on mobility that reduces liquidity in the market, and fuels price rise with higher taxes.

Shouldn't absense of liquidity premium bring the price down?

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Postby Mi Amigo » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 7:41 pm

Singapore steps up property curbs to bring down prices (BBC)
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 7:51 pm

Sergei82 wrote:
JR8 wrote:Stamp Duty is a tax on mobility that reduces liquidity in the market, and fuels price rise with higher taxes.

Shouldn't absense of liquidity premium bring the price down?


No, because you tend to have a base fixed level of demand, and the supply is far more elastic/discretionary.


p.s. Sergei, somehow you seem to posting duplicates of all your message today... ?


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