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New property cooling measures

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Wd40
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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:01 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:One more example of how non permanent PR's scamming of the system cause hardship and restrictions for those that take their PR seriously.

I can see how the game works. Get PR as quickly as you can. Buy and HDB flat and rent it out while moving back to home country. Enjoy the income without being part of Singapore.


Well, the new rules really hurt and I am ok with the rule that PRs not being allowed to rent out their flat, as a measure to stop abuse, although I dont think the abuse itself had any role to play in the rising property prices. The number of PRs who are renting out their HDB is just too little. What this rule will do though is reduce the supply of rental units even more and cause rentals to escalate further.

But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:35 pm

Wd40 wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:One more example of how non permanent PR's scamming of the system cause hardship and restrictions for those that take their PR seriously.

I can see how the game works. Get PR as quickly as you can. Buy and HDB flat and rent it out while moving back to home country. Enjoy the income without being part of Singapore.


Well, the new rules really hurt and I am ok with the rule that PRs not being allowed to rent out their flat, as a measure to stop abuse, although I dont think the abuse itself had any role to play in the rising property prices. The number of PRs who are renting out their HDB is just too little. What this rule will do though is reduce the supply of rental units even more and cause rentals to escalate further.

But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.

UNFAIR? Are you on drugs man? You think PR's should be entitled without additional cost to subsidized public housing? Get real or get out. It's PR's like you that are screwing it up for us. Gimmee gimmee gimmeee - I'm GLAD you're not buying here. Just piss off out of Singapore ASAP.
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Postby Wd40 » Sun, 13 Jan 2013 1:00 pm

Right. Now you know why I never considered PR as a permanent thing. The rules can change any time to your disadvantage. Thank God, I haven't made any commitments here. So yes, I am gonna leave the moment I find it monetarily unviable to stay here anymore, which I dont think will take too long, but not just yet :twisted: :wink:
Last edited by Wd40 on Sun, 13 Jan 2013 1:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Sun, 13 Jan 2013 1:18 pm

Wd40 wrote:Right. Now you know why I never considered PR as a permanent thing. The rules can change any time to your disadvantage. Thank God, I haven't made any commitments here. So yes, I am gonna leave the moment I find it monetarily unviable to stay here anymore, which I dont think will take too long, but not just yet :evil: :wink:


Good. Hurry up and be gone.
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Postby JayCee » Sun, 13 Jan 2013 10:54 pm

I applied for PR at the start of last year with the intention of settling down in Singapore, as my wife is also a PR and has been here for over 10 years.

Since then, rule changes have made it much harder for PR children to get into local schools, and now ABSD has been put on PRs when buying their FIRST home. Combined with the lack of job opportunities, the fall in standards of public transport (it's no better than London now IME of the last few months) and the general high prices of everything (clothes, electronics, food - good food, not the slop you get in hawker centres) it's really not looking like the attractive place it did back in Q3 2011 when I made the original appointment to apply for PR. We've been considering for the last couple of months or so whether to buy a condo and stay here or whether to cut our losses and move to the UK instead. This is the biggest sign yet that we're not wanted and has made out decision, sadly it's bye bye Singapore
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Re: New property cooling measures

Postby x9200 » Sun, 13 Jan 2013 11:09 pm

Wd40 wrote:
x9200 wrote:
JR8 wrote:
Wd40 wrote:http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC130111-0000131/Govt-announces-new-property-cooling-measures

Most important part PRs will not be allowed to rent out their HDB. Very very interesting!


Simple: 'One room lock' ah

Not really. HDB is more than aware of this "trick".


Well, it's only a problem if the owner lives in Singapore in another house(evn then I doubt it considering the number of ads on the property portals) But if owner goes abroad and locks one room, then technically it should be ok, because he can say that he is not renting out the whole unit but the room is for the owners belongings. I don't think it has has been explicitly mentioned anywhere that owner should also be living in the same house.

Right now lot of people do it during the MOP period, now only difference is the MOP is forever.

I understand what the trick is about. So is HDB. "Technically" may not be good enough. I recall seeing some information on the HDB web pages on people being fined for trying to adopt such solutions.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 7:16 am

JayCee wrote:I applied for PR at the start of last year with the intention of settling down in Singapore, as my wife is also a PR and has been here for over 10 years.

Since then, rule changes have made it much harder for PR children to get into local schools, and now ABSD has been put on PRs when buying their FIRST home. Combined with the lack of job opportunities, the fall in standards of public transport (it's no better than London now IME of the last few months) and the general high prices of everything (clothes, electronics, food - good food, not the slop you get in hawker centres) it's really not looking like the attractive place it did back in Q3 2011 when I made the original appointment to apply for PR. We've been considering for the last couple of months or so whether to buy a condo and stay here or whether to cut our losses and move to the UK instead. This is the biggest sign yet that we're not wanted and has made out decision, sadly it's bye bye Singapore


Where will you go?
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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 8:31 am

The Yahoo article mentioned ABSD for foreigners is also going up an additional 5%. Anyone see that mentioned anywhere else?

edit: Never mind, Guess i should "rtfa":

Measures Applicable to all Residential property

7 The following measures will take effect on 12 January 2013:

a) Additional Buyer's Stamp Duty (ABSD) rates will be:

i) Raised between five and seven percentage points across the board


Temporary though. Temporary until just after the Pungol East election? :P

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Postby JayCee » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 9:49 am

offshoreoildude wrote:
JayCee wrote:I applied for PR at the start of last year with the intention of settling down in Singapore, as my wife is also a PR and has been here for over 10 years.

Since then, rule changes have made it much harder for PR children to get into local schools, and now ABSD has been put on PRs when buying their FIRST home. Combined with the lack of job opportunities, the fall in standards of public transport (it's no better than London now IME of the last few months) and the general high prices of everything (clothes, electronics, food - good food, not the slop you get in hawker centres) it's really not looking like the attractive place it did back in Q3 2011 when I made the original appointment to apply for PR. We've been considering for the last couple of months or so whether to buy a condo and stay here or whether to cut our losses and move to the UK instead. This is the biggest sign yet that we're not wanted and has made out decision, sadly it's bye bye Singapore


Where will you go?


Home. Unfortunately we have to wait 8 months as our diplomatic clause doesn't kick in for 6, but after that I'll be seriously looking for an internal transfer back to London.
I HAVE MASTERS!

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Postby offshoreoildude » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 10:34 am

JayCee wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
JayCee wrote:I applied for PR at the start of last year with the intention of settling down in Singapore, as my wife is also a PR and has been here for over 10 years.

Since then, rule changes have made it much harder for PR children to get into local schools, and now ABSD has been put on PRs when buying their FIRST home. Combined with the lack of job opportunities, the fall in standards of public transport (it's no better than London now IME of the last few months) and the general high prices of everything (clothes, electronics, food - good food, not the slop you get in hawker centres) it's really not looking like the attractive place it did back in Q3 2011 when I made the original appointment to apply for PR. We've been considering for the last couple of months or so whether to buy a condo and stay here or whether to cut our losses and move to the UK instead. This is the biggest sign yet that we're not wanted and has made out decision, sadly it's bye bye Singapore


Where will you go?


Home. Unfortunately we have to wait 8 months as our diplomatic clause doesn't kick in for 6, but after that I'll be seriously looking for an internal transfer back to London.


Yes a few are heading back to London now it seems. The luckier ones are taking their financial gains on property from here and buying at good prices/exchange rates in the UK.
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Postby ScoobyDoes » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:09 am

Wd40 wrote:But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.



Anyone seriously looking to make Singapore their home as PR would not care too much about the extra 5% as PR. Supposedly on a longterm investement of 20, 30, 40yrs or a lifetime the 5% could come to a few cents per day.

It is the ones looking to dupe the system or flip in 3, 5 or 7yrs that will be, and should be put off.
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Postby offshoreoildude » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:31 am

ScoobyDoes wrote:
Wd40 wrote:But the 5% ABSD for PRs buying HDB is really unfair. This will for sure drive out most foreign talent who are looking to make Singapore their home. I am now 100% sure that I wont buy a house ever in Singapore.



Anyone seriously looking to make Singapore their home as PR would not care too much about the extra 5% as PR. Supposedly on a longterm investement of 20, 30, 40yrs or a lifetime the 5% could come to a few cents per day.

It is the ones looking to dupe the system or flip in 3, 5 or 7yrs that will be, and should be put off.


5% on $1MM is $50,000 - and it has to be paid in cash, That's the rub.
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Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:38 am

They say "temporary" in order not to frustrate people. After a while they will say that those measures brought about good results, so let us make them permanent.
I wish my salary grew at least as fast as property prices! :)

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Postby offshoreoildude » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:18 pm

zzm9980 wrote:The Yahoo article mentioned ABSD for foreigners is also going up an additional 5%. Anyone see that mentioned anywhere else?

edit: Never mind, Guess i should "rtfa":

Measures Applicable to all Residential property

7 The following measures will take effect on 12 January 2013:

a) Additional Buyer's Stamp Duty (ABSD) rates will be:

i) Raised between five and seven percentage points across the board


Temporary though. Temporary until just after the Pungol East election? :P


More like giving some face to property developers
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Postby ScoobyDoes » Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:50 pm

offshoreoildude wrote:5% on $1MM is $50,000 - and it has to be paid in cash, That's the rub.



I can do maths.

My point was that an extra 5% is not a huge amount for those looking to buy for the long term given that, in time, it will all even out to a few cents per day extra. Removing speculators/hoarders has to be the driving force behind price stability.

Anyone unable to find the extra 5% shouldn't be looking to buy at any price, let alone the $1m of your example.
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'



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