x9200 wrote:RonnieNolan wrote:x9200 wrote:
As for many countries having this sort of restrictions there is often a legal way to serve in a foreign army. Not possible for Indonesia?
Nope, the citizenship law is very clear on that.
Interesting, as far as I can see this very citizenship law also says what to do to stay legal. It took me 5 min to google out the relevant law (Article 3, Regulations 12/2006) and this is probably not the only way. Knowing a bit MS from this board I don't expect him doing anything illegal.
Actually, what you would want is Legislation no. 12/2006, Chapter 4, Article 23 which states that (and this is a rough translation):
An Indonesian citizen will lose his citizenship if the concerned party has:
a. Obtained a foreign citizenship of his own accord.
b. Does not object to or abolish a foreign citizenship/nationality while the concerned party has the chance.
c. Is declared by the President to have lost his citizenship of his own request, and that the concerned party is at least 18 y/o and married, is domiciled in a foreign country, and that the declaration of his lost of Indonesian citizenship does not leave him stateless.
d. Is serving for/in a foreign military without prior approval from the President.
e. Voluntarily entered into the service of a foreign government institution, of which position within a similar institution in Indonesia, by Indonesian law may only be staffed by an Indonesian citizen.
f. Voluntarily made a pledge or an oath of loyalty/service to a foreign country/nation/state or to any subdivision of it.
g. Is obligated to but voluntarily chose to participate in an election that is characterized as nationalistic(?) (no direct contextual translation, but its something that has to do with the state business of) a foreign country.
h. Possess a passport or document that serves as or in the capacity of a passport of a foreign country, which can be interpreted as proof of foreign nationality or:
i. Live outside the territory of the Republic of Indonesia for 5 years continuously, while not on state business, without acceptable reason knowingly did not state a desire to remain an Indonesian citizen (to the relevant authorities) before the 5-year term has ended, and for every 5 years therein did not make a statement of intent to remain an Indonesian citizen to the Indonesian Representative Office (embassy, consulate, etc) of which area/territory of responsibility covers the concerned party's residence while the Indonesian Representative Office had submitted a written reminder, and that enacting this clause does not leave the concerned party stateless.
As can be seen, clauses d, e and f are the problems that NS in Singapore is in contact with. While the next article, Article 24 gives leeway to Article 23/Clause D, Articles 28, 29 and 30 gives the government and certain government institutions the power to challenge this (Article 24). Additionally, Article 24 only gave leeway for Clause D of Article 23 and does not cover Clause E and F of which National Service in Singapore can be interpreted as infringing.
What this means is that at best, an Indonesian that has served NS in Singapore is in a grey area. He will find himself in a weak legal position. And as I have mentioned in an earlier post, if I agree or had agreed to serving NS (which brings up its own questions of beneficial use of time) and in the future an attentive bureaucrat looks into my records, I could have a legal case on my table. Not to mention that for any Indonesian who intends to serve the public good by representing their aspirations in office, this is equal to suicide as doubtless, anyone trying to run will have to get a background check (and receive at least the scrutiny of the local media, at most this means the national media). In fact, just the fact that I've lived for a decade in Singapore (which many Indonesian consider to be a safe haven for its corrupt officials) can already be used against me as a point of my unsuitability to represent and detachment from the common people (most Indonesians have never left their country). Even if I can successfully win the legal battle (for serving NS), which would have exhausted a lot of cash (court battles cost time and money), the position of having served in a foreign military is indefensible in Indonesian politics.
My mom, who had a Masters of (Indonesian) Law, always told me that I must never put myself in a weak legal position. People in such a position will be left vulnerable, and corrupt officials can use it as a reason to shake them down for all their worth. However, as long as I am in a strong legal position, no official, good or bad, can have any reason to pressure me (regardless of how much they might want to). That is why I have been safe and I intend to keep it that way.
Those who tell you money can't buy everything don't know where to shop. - Abraham Lincoln