Singapore Expats Forum

Workers in the back of trucks

Discuss anything relating to automotive here, from car leasing to buying a vehicle.

Sponsored by:
Image
AVIS Car Rental
User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10413
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 10 Dec 2012 11:28 pm

sensei_ wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:Something with SEATS... you know... a van or a bus. Gotta love the Singaporean mentality. Buckle up the little ones in a car seat or get a fine, but it's A-OK to toss in half a dozen anvils, 25 sheets of plate glass, and a dozen workers into the back of a truck/lorry.


then you have the hassle of parking the bus, paying for it, maintaining it, and then we have stingy expats complaining about the high cost of living here on retail, housing, etc.

you want to start throwing assumptions around, hell, ill join in too. here in australia i cant even ride in the back of a pick up because the government says its too dangerious. so that means now, either i buy another car with more seats, or sell the pick up and lose the ability to ferry goods around.


You're on the wrong side of this one sensei_. Workers deserve safe working conditions, including transportation. Everything has a true cost, and if people want things, they need to pay the true cost (like buses for workers), rather than getting to slide.

How to make it work? Make it universal through the rule of law so that your competition must do it also. It's the right thing to do.

sensei_
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun, 31 Jul 2011
Location: Perth, Australia

Postby sensei_ » Tue, 11 Dec 2012 9:57 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote: It's mostly the small bit players who still use trucks as they just don't have the numbers of employees to make is economically feasible.


so do we tell these small players to provide busses? and maybe watch a few of the weaker one close up shop?

Strong Eagle wrote:How to make it work? Make it universal through the rule of law so that your competition must do it also. It's the right thing to do.


So lets do what they did in australia. ban riding in open cab period. so instead of having a pickup that served as a multipurpose vehicle, i have to buy two cars one for carting people, one for carting goods. thats fine by me, but now lets sit back and listen to people cry about why the cost of goods have gone up.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34262
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 11 Dec 2012 12:44 pm

I think watching them cry is a good thing. It will weed out the bad employers as well as the employers who shouldn't be in business if their profit margins cannot handle common decency & safety.

User avatar
nakatago
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8333
Joined: Tue, 01 Sep 2009
Location: Sister Margaret’s School for Wayward Children
Contact:

Postby nakatago » Tue, 11 Dec 2012 1:41 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I think watching them cry is a good thing. It will weed out the bad employers as well as the employers who shouldn't be in business if their profit margins cannot handle common decency & safety.


+1

sensei_
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun, 31 Jul 2011
Location: Perth, Australia

Postby sensei_ » Tue, 11 Dec 2012 4:33 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I think watching them cry is a good thing. It will weed out the bad employers as well as the employers who shouldn't be in business if their profit margins cannot handle common decency & safety.


but i wonder how many will actually pay for "common decency and safety".

in australia, people talk about saving local jobs and keeping it local, yet australians vote with their wallets buying cheap imports. its amazing what money does to some people.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9164
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Tue, 11 Dec 2012 4:53 pm

I think many pay. What we see is likely some minority. It sticks out because is shocking.

BTW, in light of the safety regulation introduced some time ago the employer is obliged to handle safety issues and neglecting it or in the case of accident with some negligence involved he faces really serious fines and other forms of punishment.
Probably for the lorry transportation of the workers it is still considered as the safety outside the working place.

taxico
Director
Director
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat, 10 May 2008
Location: Existential dilemma!

Postby taxico » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 2:43 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
taxico wrote:the picture showed in this thread is probably old and before legislation was in place to ferry workers correctly


No, I actually took it about an hour or so before posting this thread.


sorry lah.

: )

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9266
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

And then I happened to see this ..

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 17 Dec 2012 9:34 am

:)

Image

the truck was filled with bundles of newspaper .. and the 'passengers' were squeezed in between the bundles ..

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6837
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 17 Dec 2012 11:23 am

I got a reply. It doesn't really make sense, they just quote the law.

We refer to your email of 28 November 2012.
Under the Road Traffic Act, lorries cannot be used for private passenger transport. However, the Road Traffic Act provides an exception for owners and hirers of lorries to use their vehicles to transport their workers to and from their lodgings and places of work, or between their places of work, subject to a few requirements such as if goods are also transported, they must be properly secured such that they will not endanger the workers carried or other road users.

The lorry must not carry an excess number of workers based on the minimum deck space requirement of 0.372 square metres (or 4 square feet) per seated worker. If goods or equipment are also transported, the number of workers that may be carried is reduced according to the remaining floor area available.

To complement our on-the-road enforcement effort against unroadworthy or illegally modified vehicles, feedback from members of the public on such vehicles seen on the roads is an important part of our wider enforcement. Depending on the nature and seriousness of the feedback, we would require the informant's assistance to fill in a simple feedback form before we call the vehicle for an ad hoc inspection. This process is necessary as the details provided in the feedback form would serve as an authentication and help prevent any abuse or unnecessary misuse of the feedback system by members of the public. You would appreciate that this would help ensure vehicle owners are not unnecessarily inconvenienced.

Should you come across any vehicles that is illegally modified or un-roadworthy in the future, you could complete the attached feedback form and email to us. Alternatively, you can fax or mail the completed feedback form to the Vehicle Engineering Division of LTA at 10 Sin Ming Drive, Singapore 575701.

We thank you for your valuable feedback.


Yours sincerely

TOH SOCK HAR
for DEPUTY DIRECTOR
VEHICLE ENGINEERING DIVISION


I guess it is open to interpretation if the goods in my photo are "properly secured such that they will not endanger the workers carried or other road users". I probably would have had a better case if I complained that they potentially endangered the other road users.

I do indeed appreciate their concern that: "You would appreciate that this would help ensure vehicle owners are not unnecessarily inconvenienced."


I won't bother to fill out their feedback form. It'll probably just hurt me when I renew my EP or apply for PR.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9164
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Mon, 17 Dec 2012 12:01 pm

I don't think it would hurt you the said way but it is pretty clear they typically act like trying to discourage you to file any complains. Same goes for reporting parking at the handicapped lots or completely blocking the pedestrians pathways. You get then very similar responses and they require to submit the digital photo in print :)
Say, it is understandable to some extent. They would probably be flooded with this sort of feedback if it was made too easy to initiate any formal action.

User avatar
the lynx
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5239
Joined: Thu, 09 Dec 2010
Location: Midgar

Postby the lynx » Mon, 17 Dec 2012 2:32 pm

zzm9980 wrote:I got a reply. It doesn't really make sense, they just quote the law.

We refer to your email of 28 November 2012.
Under the Road Traffic Act, lorries cannot be used for private passenger transport. However, the Road Traffic Act provides an exception for owners and hirers of lorries to use their vehicles to transport their workers to and from their lodgings and places of work, or between their places of work, subject to a few requirements such as if goods are also transported, they must be properly secured such that they will not endanger the workers carried or other road users.

The lorry must not carry an excess number of workers based on the minimum deck space requirement of 0.372 square metres (or 4 square feet) per seated worker. If goods or equipment are also transported, the number of workers that may be carried is reduced according to the remaining floor area available.

To complement our on-the-road enforcement effort against unroadworthy or illegally modified vehicles, feedback from members of the public on such vehicles seen on the roads is an important part of our wider enforcement. Depending on the nature and seriousness of the feedback, we would require the informant's assistance to fill in a simple feedback form before we call the vehicle for an ad hoc inspection. This process is necessary as the details provided in the feedback form would serve as an authentication and help prevent any abuse or unnecessary misuse of the feedback system by members of the public. You would appreciate that this would help ensure vehicle owners are not unnecessarily inconvenienced.

Should you come across any vehicles that is illegally modified or un-roadworthy in the future, you could complete the attached feedback form and email to us. Alternatively, you can fax or mail the completed feedback form to the Vehicle Engineering Division of LTA at 10 Sin Ming Drive, Singapore 575701.

We thank you for your valuable feedback.


Yours sincerely

TOH SOCK HAR
for DEPUTY DIRECTOR
VEHICLE ENGINEERING DIVISION


I guess it is open to interpretation if the goods in my photo are "properly secured such that they will not endanger the workers carried or other road users". I probably would have had a better case if I complained that they potentially endangered the other road users.

I do indeed appreciate their concern that: "You would appreciate that this would help ensure vehicle owners are not unnecessarily inconvenienced."


I won't bother to fill out their feedback form. It'll probably just hurt me when I renew my EP or apply for PR.


I don't get it either. Shouldn't, "Thanks for the feedback. We are now looking into the matter as we speak," suffice?

So long-winded la...

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6837
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 17 Dec 2012 3:34 pm

the lynx wrote:I don't get it either. Shouldn't, "Thanks for the feedback. We are now looking into the matter as we speak," suffice?

So long-winded la...


Yeah, basically it's a very long winded explanation of the law, and an invitation to pretty much re-tell them everything I already did on their official form. (A word doc with no .doc extension too, funny enough). If the photo I attached isn't sufficient proof to prove the allegation and show I'm not vindictively trying to harass the lorry owner (now who would every do that in Singapore? :lol:) then whatever.

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6837
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 17 Dec 2012 3:35 pm

x9200 wrote:Say, it is understandable to some extent. They would probably be flooded with this sort of feedback if it was made too easy to initiate any formal action.



The best part is? I submitted this via LTA's own iPhone app which is designed to let you upload a digital photo. It is for "road problems" though. I guess this isn't their idea of a problem.

User avatar
ecureilx
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 9266
Joined: Fri, 20 Aug 2010

Postby ecureilx » Mon, 17 Dec 2012 3:46 pm

x9200 wrote:I don't think it would hurt you the said way but it is pretty clear they typically act like trying to discourage you to file any complains. Same goes for reporting parking at the handicapped lots or completely blocking the pedestrians pathways. You get then very similar responses and they require to submit the digital photo in print :)
Say, it is understandable to some extent. They would probably be flooded with this sort of feedback if it was made too easy to initiate any formal action.


I once had to call up the LTA line, for a person blocking the handicapped parking, when the offender gave me a nasty look and said "go report to LTA .. " since he assumed that handicapped parking means the driver of the vehicle too had to be handicapped - not those transporting handicapped person .. same - I was asked to send in a reporting form .. by the time I came to doing it, i had lost interest ..

this was before the enforcement of stricter handicapped parking rules ..

I do agree, if the reporting process was simpler, each and every guy who got mad at anything would be reporting - see what goes on in Stomp .. stuff like "driver driving in the road" to .. "driver has sun-roof open" to .. well, the car is moving with the driver in the driving seat .. "

Years ago, when the Software piracy line was promoted, when you report a violation, you had to furnish full details, or no go .. later I found out that then, Software piracy was a Civil crime - the cops need to file charges and then get a warrant etc. etc .. hence the need for a complainants details ..

Now Software piracy is Criminal, so they don't force you to fill up the reporting form ..

Maybe same for LTA - such offenses maybe "CIVIL" so they need to seek a court order .. etc.etc .. just thinking aloud ..

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9164
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Mon, 17 Dec 2012 5:39 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
x9200 wrote:Say, it is understandable to some extent. They would probably be flooded with this sort of feedback if it was made too easy to initiate any formal action.



The best part is? I submitted this via LTA's own iPhone app which is designed to let you upload a digital photo. It is for "road problems" though. I guess this isn't their idea of a problem.

I just download something of this sort to my Android phone and it is said to be for the "road defects" reporting.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Cars & Motorcycles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest