Singapore Expats Forum

Considering relocation.

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10843
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 27 Nov 2012 7:28 pm

I think Singapore is in a downward spiral. Those wanting to join the game now will find intense economic pressures that weren't present 3 or 4 years ago.

Cost of living is rapidly going up. The gahmen conveniently leaves out critical costs when computing inflation but the fact is that exploding property values coupled with insane vehicle costs mean that not only you pay high rents and high costs for transportation, but so does every other retailer and business to business entity, which means that costs for everything are going up.

Businesses are stuck with increases in fixed costs like office space... so where to they economize? Salaries. It means a lot of pressure on previously sacrosanct salaries like consultants and senior project managers. Contract terms are shorter, too. Net effect: Companies are willing to risk the use of junior talent because they cost less.

And then, we have government policy... extremely short sighted in my view... PEP needs to earn $144K per year. $6K jobs being turned into S passes and then rejected because of quota issues. You are correct... $100K is the absolute minimum to live any kind of life style... and you are at risk for getting heaved out the next time the gahmen decides to tighten the screws.

I came over in 2004 to start a business. Conditions were good. I would not consider it now. Expat packages have been disappearing over the last few years, but given the current climate, I wouldn't come here without one. Housing, cars, schools are very expensive, and if you don't earn enough income, you might get tossed.

offshoreoildude
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1582
Joined: Wed, 04 Jul 2012

Postby offshoreoildude » Tue, 27 Nov 2012 8:24 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:I think Singapore is in a downward spiral. Those wanting to join the game now will find intense economic pressures that weren't present 3 or 4 years ago.

Cost of living is rapidly going up. The gahmen conveniently leaves out critical costs when computing inflation but the fact is that exploding property values coupled with insane vehicle costs mean that not only you pay high rents and high costs for transportation, but so does every other retailer and business to business entity, which means that costs for everything are going up.

Businesses are stuck with increases in fixed costs like office space... so where to they economize? Salaries. It means a lot of pressure on previously sacrosanct salaries like consultants and senior project managers. Contract terms are shorter, too. Net effect: Companies are willing to risk the use of junior talent because they cost less.

And then, we have government policy... extremely short sighted in my view... PEP needs to earn $144K per year. $6K jobs being turned into S passes and then rejected because of quota issues. You are correct... $100K is the absolute minimum to live any kind of life style... and you are at risk for getting heaved out the next time the gahmen decides to tighten the screws.

I came over in 2004 to start a business. Conditions were good. I would not consider it now. Expat packages have been disappearing over the last few years, but given the current climate, I wouldn't come here without one. Housing, cars, schools are very expensive, and if you don't earn enough income, you might get tossed.


You're spot on. It's basically like trying to move to NY or London or Tokyo but with no 'cheap' jobs available. Singapore is essentially a closed shop in trade union lingo. If you missed out, too bad. And yes; these pressures will force me out soon enough too.
Now I'm called PNGMK

Linda123
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed, 21 Nov 2012

Postby Linda123 » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 12:25 am

PEP = Personalised employment pass, a quick search on the forum tells me that this a some sort of stepping stone to become a PR or some sort of visa to bring your family with you. Isn’t it HR's concern on what passes we come ? Why would those who earn 100k be at risk of “getting heaved out thenext time the gahmen decides to tighten the screws”

noskich
Regular
Regular
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu, 12 May 2011

Postby noskich » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 8:27 am

Linda123 wrote:Is it because you're not earning a minimum of S$144 K p.a. and hence do not have a PEP pass that lets you stay on if you find yourself suddenly unemployed ?


Have a look here: http://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-manpower/ ... fault.aspx

and overseas-based foreign professionals whose last drawn fixed monthly salary was at least $18,000.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10843
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 8:39 am

[quote="Linda123"]PEP = Personalised employment pass, a quick search on the forum tells me that this a some sort of stepping stone to become a PR or some sort of visa to bring your family with you. Isn’t it HR's concern on what passes we come ? Why would those who earn 100k be at risk of “getting heaved out thenext time the gahmen decides to tighten the screws”

noskich
Regular
Regular
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu, 12 May 2011

Postby noskich » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 8:48 am

Strong Eagle wrote:You miss the point.


Eagle, all good and the advice to pass on Singapore would be highly relevant IF there were a few other places with much better conditions.
However, there aren`t! Everything you wrote about Singapore on this thread can be 100% applied to Australia as well.
What`s left? Crumbling Europe? US in recession?

Unfortunately that`s the best there is, Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia. Places with huge living costs and overpriced real estate, but what`s better?
Middle East can be a sweet deal financially for a couple of years (nil tax), but living there for a decade doesn`t sound appealing.

User avatar
Sergei82
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1455
Joined: Mon, 02 Nov 2009

Postby Sergei82 » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 10:37 am

Strong Eagle wrote:For example, I know of a computer services company that has lost several of its technicians because MOM decided to renew $6K to $8K per month salaries as S passes instead of EP's.


Came back after spasmodically checking MOM site... Strong Eagle, you be careful scaring people with these exaggerations - it's still 4K. I really was worried that I may easily fall from being P1-eligible to S Pass in less than a year if they tighten that fast... Fortunately, my PEP will still be valid for a couple of years.

Callput
Regular
Regular
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu, 08 Nov 2012

Postby Callput » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 10:37 am

noskich wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:You miss the point.


Eagle, all good and the advice to pass on Singapore would be highly relevant IF there were a few other places with much better conditions.
However, there aren`t! Everything you wrote about Singapore on this thread can be 100% applied to Australia as well.
What`s left? Crumbling Europe? US in recession?

Unfortunately that`s the best there is, Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia. Places with huge living costs and overpriced real estate, but what`s better?
Middle East can be a sweet deal financially for a couple of years (nil tax), but living there for a decade doesn`t sound appealing.


Noskitch, I dont know what industry you are that makes you feel so sanguine about Singapore. But I will tell about Banking and IT

US is in a much better position than Singapore. Dont go by the jobless numbers claims. As far as IT employment goes its almost full, you wont find too many IT guys unemployed in the US.

Singapore is neither here nor there. US is where the major business is and hence there is lot of employees there. Singapore used to be low cost alternative back office location and hence banks chose to build huge IT capability here. But now as costs are increasing here, it doesnt make sense to keep the IT people here, as there is no business here to support.
India is a cheaper back office location. So while Us IT jobs will still remains because most of the tech leads, architechts and the main driving force is still from the US. Singapore on the other hand is in no mans land. IT jobs from here are going to India.

So I would rather take a chance of going to the US at this point if I had the choice than stay back in Singapore.

Callput
Regular
Regular
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu, 08 Nov 2012

Postby Callput » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 10:44 am

Sergei82 wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:For example, I know of a computer services company that has lost several of its technicians because MOM decided to renew $6K to $8K per month salaries as S passes instead of EP's.


Came back after spasmodically checking MOM site... Strong Eagle, you be careful scaring people with these exaggerations - it's still 4K. I really was worried that I may easily fall from being P1-eligible to S Pass in less than a year if they tighten that fast... Fortunately, my PEP will still be valid for a couple of years.


I think you havent spent too much time on this forum reading some of the old threads. There have been lots of cases of people with 6k salary being downgraded to S pass, on renewal. This has more to do with the company I guess and not the individual. S Pass has quotas and hence when they convert people from EP which has no quotas to S Pass, the company cannot have too many foreigners on its pay roll.

BTW, the minimum salary for a pass just means it is minimum, doesnt mean for sure you will get that pass.

User avatar
v4jr4
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 887
Joined: Mon, 09 Jul 2012
Location: Chocolate Factory

Postby v4jr4 » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 10:46 am

Callput wrote:So I would rather take a chance of going to the US at this point if I had the choice than stay back in Singapore.


I remember an article that said "Singapore is still pretty attractive as a hub." Google that word, and you'll find the exact link. And now, I'm sitting back, waiting for the Q4 result :P
"Budget Expat"

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10843
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 11:46 am

Sergei82 wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:For example, I know of a computer services company that has lost several of its technicians because MOM decided to renew $6K to $8K per month salaries as S passes instead of EP's.


Came back after spasmodically checking MOM site... Strong Eagle, you be careful scaring people with these exaggerations - it's still 4K. I really was worried that I may easily fall from being P1-eligible to S Pass in less than a year if they tighten that fast... Fortunately, my PEP will still be valid for a couple of years.


Those are the MINIMUM requirements. You can make a lot more than 4K and still be stuck with an S Pass.

User avatar
Sergei82
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1455
Joined: Mon, 02 Nov 2009

Postby Sergei82 » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 12:50 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:For example, I know of a computer services company that has lost several of its technicians because MOM decided to renew $6K to $8K per month salaries as S passes instead of EP's.


Came back after spasmodically checking MOM site... Strong Eagle, you be careful scaring people with these exaggerations - it's still 4K. I really was worried that I may easily fall from being P1-eligible to S Pass in less than a year if they tighten that fast... Fortunately, my PEP will still be valid for a couple of years.


Those are the MINIMUM requirements. You can make a lot more than 4K and still be stuck with an S Pass.


Can 10K/month-earner be converted to S Pass???

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6837
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 12:57 pm

Sergei82 wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
Sergei82 wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:For example, I know of a computer services company that has lost several of its technicians because MOM decided to renew $6K to $8K per month salaries as S passes instead of EP's.


Came back after spasmodically checking MOM site... Strong Eagle, you be careful scaring people with these exaggerations - it's still 4K. I really was worried that I may easily fall from being P1-eligible to S Pass in less than a year if they tighten that fast... Fortunately, my PEP will still be valid for a couple of years.


Those are the MINIMUM requirements. You can make a lot more than 4K and still be stuck with an S Pass.


Can 10K/month-earner be converted to S Pass???


Yes, someone posted about this on the forum (P1s being renewed as S-Pass). I worry about it for myself when PEP expires.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34794
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 1:04 pm

For the record, there are no upper limits to any employment pass or work permit when it comes to salaries. There are only minimums that must be met. This means, if MOM/gahmen wants to reduce the baggage that accompanies a lot of foreign talent, they can downgrade anybody to a lower level pass and that person has no recourse. Good example is those who immediately bring in parents and/or in-laws. By reducing the pass to S level, then those would have to go. Still allows the pass holder to work, but not to have all the other perks (baggage).

User avatar
Sergei82
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1455
Joined: Mon, 02 Nov 2009

Postby Sergei82 » Wed, 28 Nov 2012 1:13 pm

So if I'm a single male without dependants, I'll be ok? (most likely)


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Careers & Jobs in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest