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Singapore Citizenship for minor

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Man35Ind
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Singapore Citizenship for minor

Postby Man35Ind » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 4:38 pm

Hi all,
I have a situation as follows:

Indian male Singaporean by registration and married to a Malaysian Chinese (Singapore PR). we both work in multinational banks (different ones) in Singapore. Our salaries are comparable and my last year total cash component was around 150K p.a. My wife gave birth in Malaysia since none of our parents could come to Singapore to take care of my wife and the baby for 3 months. Baby boy's birth certificate says he is a malaysian citizen (by default since the mom is). I applied for his citizenship through ICA within 12 days of my son's birth. ICA got back to me in a month and asked for my CPF contribution history, latest employment letter, payslips and last 3 years of tax assessment apart from certified true copies (scanned was submitted by me during initial application) of my son's birth certificate and our marriage certificate (which was from ROM, Singapore). I sent these over email within 2 daysand called them last week whether they need anything more e.g. my wife's documents. The person said he needs only these documents and that too mine since I am the sponsor.

I hear that nowadays is tough to get the citizenship. I want my son to be borught up in Singapore and he should stay with me. Wondering what are the chances of rejection and if that is the case, what should be my next steps?

I have a private property in Singapore and has not transfered out money from Singapore for the past 6 years and I have been living in Singapore for 7 years now and been a citizen for more than 2 years.

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 5:10 pm

Weird but from what I remember your child should NOT be eligible for citizenship. Of course unless you are some kind of VIP and you fall under Art. 124 of the Constitution.

http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=132

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Postby Man35Ind » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 5:28 pm

Thanks x9200. That's what I read after I applied. In the e-SC main page the brief wordings says as long as the minor is born to a Singapore citizen but the details differentiates the one by birth and the one by registration. Not sure why ICA actually asked me for more documents after a month instead of an outright rejection since it seems my child is not eligible.

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 5:32 pm

It's a good sign they ask for more documents so have some hope.

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Postby Man35Ind » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 5:46 pm

Thanks x9920. Am having sleepless nights worrying what if my son does not get a citizenship or worse a pass to stay in Singapore. I won't be able to see him growing up.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 6:01 pm

x9200 wrote:Weird but from what I remember your child should NOT be eligible for citizenship. Of course unless you are some kind of VIP and you fall under Art. 124 of the Constitution.

http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=132


x9200, where are you reading? From my reading the key word is any and if you proceed to the linked Annex you will find a residency test to qualify under the bolded black qualifier.

An overseas-born minor (child) may be eligible for Singapore Citizenship by Descent under Article 122(1) of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore, if his/her parents meet any of the following conditions:

    ~Male Singapore citizen by Birth who has a lawful marriage at time of minor's birth
    ~Male Singapore citizen by Registration who has a lawful marriage at time of minor's birth and minor does not acquire citizenship of the country he was born by reason of his birth in that country
    ~Female Singapore citizen by Birth and minor born on or after 15 May 2004
    ~Female Singapore citizen by Registration and minor born on or after 15 May 2004. Minor shall not acquire citizenship of the country he was born by reason of his birth in that country
    ~Male (who has a lawful marriage at time of minor's birth) or Female Singapore citizen by Descent has to declare their residence period in Singapore. The application can only be accepted if the parent fulfils the requirements stipulated in the Annex.


Relevant parts of the Annex bolded RED - especially the third page .....

APPLICATION FOR SINGAPORE CITIZENSHIP BY DESCENT Article 122 (1)

http://www.ica.gov.sg/data/resources/do ... (byDescent).pdf (you will have to paste the whole address into the address bar)

(Applicable to parent who is a Singapore Citizen by Descent)
Privacy Statement
The ICA collects personal information to administer immigration and registration functions in Singapore. We may share necessary data with other Government agencies (or non-Government entities which have been authorised to carry out specific Government services) to process any applications you have made or to render you a service, so as to serve you in a most efficient and effective way, unless such sharing is prohibited by legislation.

Residency Period of Applicant (parent who is a Singapore Citizen by Descent)
(Please tick in the appropriate box)
    (a) Have you accumulated at least 1 year of residence in Singapore out of the 5 years before the birth of your child?
    Applicant (*Father/Mother): Yes No
    If the answer is No for (a), please proceed to (b)

    (b) Have you accumulated a total of 4 years residency period in Singapore before the birth of your child?
    Applicant (*Father/Mother): Yes No
    If the answer is Yes, please list down the periods of your studies, NS, employment etc in


OP is a registered Citizen, so if he was resident in Singapore as a Citizen (although is does not specifically saw citizen) for AT LEAST one year before the birth of the child, then from my reading of it, it would appear that the child would qualify for citizenship regardless of the fact that the child also was given Malaysian Citizenship because of the mother giving birth there.

OP, I hope that you will continue with us here and let us know how it is going and whether or not you were successful. This is were we get the accumulated data that we use to help other when we can. So, we would really appreciate it. From where I stand, unless I'm reading something wrong, just go with the flow with ICA and you can use the links I've pointed out to support your application.

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Postby Man35Ind » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 6:15 pm

Thanks SMS. However the one you are highlighting is for a parent who is a Singaporean by descent whereas I am a Singaporean by registration :(. I will keep all of you posted about the outcome so that others can refer to such a scenario.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 6:26 pm

That's what happens when one get interrupted in the middle of something and comes back later.

Somehow glossed right over that small but major, major point. My profound apologies.

:oops!:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 6:30 pm

Having said that, at the worst case, have your wife apply for PR for the child. She is a PR with a Citizen Sponsor as well and both are well able to sponsor so there is nothing stopping you from going that route. The only difference is that the child might have to be on an LTVP for a while before all the gears can be engaged.

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 6:32 pm

~Male (who has a lawful marriage at time of minor's birth) or Female Singapore citizen by Descent has to declare their residence period in Singapore. The application can only be accepted if the parent fulfils the requirements stipulated in the Annex.


I interpreted the above as: (Male or Female) by descent. So IMO this clause does not apply to him as he is SC by registration.

And

this is the Art. 122:
2) A person born outside Singapore shall not be a citizen of Singapore by descent by virtue of clause (1) unless —
[..]
(b) he would not acquire the citizenship of the country in which he was born by reason of his birth in that country where —
[..]
(ii) in the case of a person born on or after the date of commencement of section 7 of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore (Amendment) Act 2004, either his father or mother is a citizen of Singapore by registration at the time of his birth.


So if I understand this correctly his son got Malaysian citizenship by birth and he is SC by registration so the exclusion applies.

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Postby Man35Ind » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 6:37 pm

No worries SMS and no need to apologise since all of you are trying to dig in the info for me. My only hope seems like that e-SC main page and FAQ page does not say about registration part and also when I received the email from ICA, the person had already checked and accepted my application and asked for those documents which indicates that he wishes to know whether I have been staying in SG for the past few years, whether I am earning well (although this point is subjective) and contributing to taxes and CPF. One small point, not sure whether it is relevant - when he asked me for the documents, he refered to a PDF and asked me to send the documents under points x, y, z, etc. This pdf document had the heading: LIST OF DOCUMENTS REQUIRED UNDER ARTICLES 121(3), 124(1) and 124(2) OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF SINGAPORE. It was not for Singapore by Descent although I applied for it. Hence it seems that although I did apply for that scheme, he went through the application and understood my son is not eligible for that scheme and instead he sent me an alternative. I maybe wrong since both these pdfs have similar document needs and it is possible that he just sent any of the two pdfs. Overanalysis on my part maybe :)

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Postby offshoreoildude » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 8:11 pm

I'd be surprised if your son did not get SC. Male descendants of SC are pretty much constitutionally guaranteed citizenship, even if you are a naturalized citizen - it's the children of female naturalized SC that tend to run into trouble in my limited experience.

All foreign born children need to be registered - and yes - IME it's a long and stupid process.
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Postby Man35Ind » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 8:22 pm

OSOD I am counting on the the male child point and I have no issues with the NS. I am also happy to let ICA know my son really don't need malaysia citizenship (in case they reject) and can give up in case ICA is willing to grant him an in-principle approval (although I know minors are not required to but this is to show my sincerity).

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Result

Postby Man35Ind » Wed, 19 Dec 2012 9:35 am

Hi All,
For your compilation - Checked in IEnquiry and it shows that the application is approved. However when I go from the e-SC, the status is still pending. I guess the e-SC may have a data replication lag.

I am yet to get a letter from ICA or receive an email but hopefully will get it soon. Had called up ICA yesterday before I checked iEnquiry and the lady told me that it is in the last stages of processing and she will ask the office to let me know what all documents are needed (now I guess it is about bringing the original documents to ICA and receive the certificate). I saw the online results at night.

2.5 months of stress and in the end hopefully it will work out well. Will let you all know once the certificate is at hand.

Again a very big thank you to all of you for the constructive discussion.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:11 am

Thanks for the update. May your Xmas be a good one.
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