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Postby nakatago » Fri, 16 Nov 2012 5:46 pm

zzm9980 wrote:Quite funnily, my friends like to joke that I had a mid-life (more like third-life?) crisis a few months ago. It was mostly me ranting about what stupid work we all do, and how most of it doesn't really matter or advance the human race in any meaningful way. This was right around the Space-X launch; it made me think I should be working for a company like that which actually contributes something towards the future instead of one which just designs aesthetically pleasing pieces of digital crack to keep people busy and blur to the world around them.


NASA put a robot on Mars using a rocket powered skycrane so that we can know if the human race can live there or find out what could happen to earth in the future the same week we put everyone's most hated but also most popular social network on a SIM card so that you can use the bloody social network even on the dumbest of phones, using up precious SMS credits for dumb posts instead of actually communicating with your 'friends.' Yes, that was an official project. We were being paid to use the bloody social network at work.

:cry:

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Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 16 Nov 2012 5:48 pm

nakatago wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:Quite funnily, my friends like to joke that I had a mid-life (more like third-life?) crisis a few months ago. It was mostly me ranting about what stupid work we all do, and how most of it doesn't really matter or advance the human race in any meaningful way. This was right around the Space-X launch; it made me think I should be working for a company like that which actually contributes something towards the future instead of one which just designs aesthetically pleasing pieces of digital crack to keep people busy and blur to the world around them.


NASA put a robot on Mars using a rocket powered skycrane so that we can know if the human race can live there or find out what could happen to earth in the future the same week we put everyone's most hated but also most popular social network on a SIM card so that you can use the bloody social network even on the dumbest of phones, using up precious SMS credits for dumb posts instead of actually communicating with your 'friends.' Yes, that was an official project. We were being paid to use the bloody social network at work.

:cry:[/quote

At least I'm not the only one who feels like this :D

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 16 Nov 2012 5:57 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
JR8 wrote:More seriously though which industries 'actually contribute to the human race', where finance, apparently in your eyes, does not?


Quite funnily, my friends like to joke that I had a mid-life (more like third-life?) crisis a few months ago. It was mostly me ranting about what stupid work we all do, and how most of it doesn't really matter or advance the human race in any meaningful way. This was right around the Space-X launch; it made me think I should be working for a company like that which actually contributes something towards the future instead of one which just designs aesthetically pleasing pieces of digital crack to keep people busy and blur to the world around them.

I got over it quite fast though. Must have had a few too many to drink that night :D



God forbid but if ever your wife breaks down at night in the rain 10 miles from a public phone I expect you will be reminded of the genuine good that your endeavors contribute towards!

Me... I'm not even going to consider becoming a selfless bleedin' heart liberal until I've got at least $10m of other peoples' money safely in the bank.

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Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 16 Nov 2012 6:12 pm

JR8 wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
JR8 wrote:More seriously though which industries 'actually contribute to the human race', where finance, apparently in your eyes, does not?


Quite funnily, my friends like to joke that I had a mid-life (more like third-life?) crisis a few months ago. It was mostly me ranting about what stupid work we all do, and how most of it doesn't really matter or advance the human race in any meaningful way. This was right around the Space-X launch; it made me think I should be working for a company like that which actually contributes something towards the future instead of one which just designs aesthetically pleasing pieces of digital crack to keep people busy and blur to the world around them.

I got over it quite fast though. Must have had a few too many to drink that night :D



God forbid but if ever your wife breaks down at night in the rain 10 miles from a public phone I expect you will be reminded of the genuine good that your endeavors contribute towards!

Me... I'm not even going to consider becoming a selfless bleedin' heart liberal until I've got at least $10m of other peoples' money safely in the bank.


I told you, it was a fleeting moment likely inspired alcohol :P

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Postby Mi Amigo » Fri, 16 Nov 2012 6:17 pm

JR8 wrote:Me... I'm not even going to consider becoming a selfless bleedin' heart liberal until I've got at least $10m of other peoples' money safely in the bank.

I lol'd
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Postby Callput » Fri, 16 Nov 2012 7:09 pm

JR8 wrote:
Brah wrote:I think you know that's not what I meant.

One thing's for sure, a lot less people are investing a lot less, and a lot less people have money to invest.


No honestly, I don't know what you are trying to say. And I don't understand your comment above. I see stock-markets at record highs, ditto property markets. That suggests to me that people have record sums of money to invest. What indicators are you using to gauge # of investors and their available funds?


Brah wrote:Maybe the next generation will enable a new industry that does more than play with OPM, and actually contribute to the human race.



It sounds rather like you'd welcome the return of the Khmer Rouge, you know, everyone out of their Raffles Place offices and engaged in the noble
labour of tilling the soil on the Padang instead.

More seriously though which industries 'actually contribute to the human race', where finance, apparently in your eyes, does not?


JR8 & Brah, you are both much more knowledgable about IB than I am, but here's my take on it.

Finance now is surely not like how it used be. Although markets are at all time highs, it means nothing. Valuationswise and earnings multiplewise we are much lower than where we were in 2008. Trading volumes are much lower and M&A activity and public offerings are also much lower and that reflects in the banking stock prices. Also the new regulations by various bodies are reducing banks profitability for eg, restrictions on properitery trading, amount of risk weighted assets etc.

But that doesnt mean banking is going to close down altogether. Just like after the dotcom bust IT didnt collapse alltogether, if anything IT is more relevant than before, but yes those crazy valuations that ecommerce companies used to enjoy is no more there. I think something similar is going to happen with Investment Banking as well. MBA grads can forget the crazy salaries that they used to get, especially those that are less than the best.

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Postby Brah » Fri, 16 Nov 2012 7:10 pm

I'm talking mainly about the amount of people, not just traders, etc. , employed by Finance firms from the 80s until now, and how those numbers are getting lower and lower. And if those job numbers are not being created in other industries, then where are these people going to work?

I'm sure you've seen articles about college students being advised to reconsider careers in Finance as it's no longer the Holy Grail of job opportunities it was only a few years back.

As far as investing, at least in the States, the kinds of average people who gambled in the stock market pre- and even post- dot.com boom are now few and far between. And with the frightening and persistent unemployment rate there, people barely have money for food and shelter, that very significant segment of the once-investing public certainly is not investing. I'm sure the rich continue to invest.

So I'm sure you're correct in that there are fewer, richer people benefiting whereas not long ago more people had a better quality of life, jobs, less fear of unemployment, and 'disposable' income with which to invest.

JR8 wrote:
Brah wrote:I think you know that's not what I meant.

One thing's for sure, a lot less people are investing a lot less, and a lot less people have money to invest.


No honestly, I don't know what you are trying to say. And I don't understand your comment above. I see stock-markets at record highs, ditto property markets. That suggests to me that people have record sums of money to invest. What indicators are you using to gauge # of investors and their available funds?


Brah wrote:Maybe the next generation will enable a new industry that does more than play with OPM, and actually contribute to the human race.



It sounds rather like you'd welcome the return of the Khmer Rouge, you know, everyone out of their Raffles Place offices and engaged in the noble
labour of tilling the soil on the Padang instead.

More seriously though which industries 'actually contribute to the human race', where finance, apparently in your eyes, does not?


Nice one. But not quite that drastic of course. Finance, Wall Street anyway, is largely about money, whereas lives are saved in hospitals, inventions are created in tech companies, music and art are created by artists, scientists create cures for diseases, etc.

It's surely an arguable point, and has been debated to death on forums and sites like HuffPo by those who feel quite strongly about it, and while I may not be one of them, and while some of them are misguided into thinking dogmatically that money=greed=bad etc. you're more likely to find more reasons where over the past decade the Finance industry has screwed up people, homes, families, states, countries, etc. than the contrary.

I think zzm9980's said rant was a more eloquent explanation than mine.

I just read Callput's post that followed mine, he's totally right and I think we're all on the same page here. Will make for an interesting Eagles night.
Last edited by Brah on Fri, 16 Nov 2012 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Brah » Fri, 16 Nov 2012 7:54 pm

I was never a Trekkie and the movies were pretty so-so except the last one.

But to the 'humanity' point, I love this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilY4hRgfC2Q&

JR's gonna slay me as a BHL for this.....

And this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp3OhC3NoMk&

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:27 pm

brah wrote:I'm talking mainly about the amount of people, not just traders, etc. , employed by Finance firms from the 80s until now, and how those numbers are getting lower and lower. And if those job numbers are not being created in other industries, then where are these people going to work?

Are the global #'s lower? It would surprise me, simply because more people in the world need banking services, and you can only automate so far.

I'm sure you've seen articles about college students being advised to reconsider careers in Finance as it's no longer the Holy Grail of job opportunities it was only a few years back.

Honestly no I haven't, and I consider myself well up on current affairs. Though I do accept that employment sectors and career-advice are not really things that are on my radar any more.


As far as investing, at least in the States, the kinds of average people who gambled in the stock market pre- and even post- dot.com boom are now few and far between.

I thought we were talking about investing earlier? That is a long way away from gambling. If you are say talking about people quitting med school to become day traders, well more fool them. Yes I KNOW someone who did that, jeez what a numb-nuts! <shock>

And with the frightening and persistent unemployment rate there, people barely have money for food and shelter, that very significant segment of the once-investing public certainly is not investing. I'm sure the rich continue to invest.

It sounds as if you are suggesting the US is in the midst of dire straights, nay depression. Did I miss something?

So I'm sure you're correct in that there are fewer, richer people benefiting whereas not long ago more people had a better quality of life, jobs, less fear of unemployment, and 'disposable' income with which to invest.

I said all of that, funny I don't remember any of it?! :)

[joke re: Khmer Rough]

Nice one. But not quite that drastic of course. Finance, Wall Street anyway, is largely about money,

Well of course, it doesn't pretend to be about anything else, I can't see why it should. But to wha\t ends is that money used is more to the point IMO?

whereas lives are saved in hospitals,

Built using Wall Street money

inventions are created in tech companies, music and art are created by artists, scientists create cures for diseases, etc.

Ditto re: Wall street, except some artists who are poor. Jeez even major musical groups sell their collective future rights (via banks) these days.


It's surely an arguable point, and has been debated to death on forums and sites like HuffPo

Yeugh, 'dirty commie site'! ;)

by those who feel quite strongly about it, and while I may not be one of them, and while some of them are misguided into thinking dogmatically that money=greed=bad etc. you're more likely to find more reasons where over the past decade the Finance industry has screwed up people, homes, families, states, countries, etc. than the contrary.

Here you go again. What did banks do, go and hold a gun to their heads and force them to take loans out? In any case where there has been mis-selling people are entitled to compensation.

I think zzm9980's said rant was a more eloquent explanation than mine.

I just read Callput's post that followed mine, he's totally right and I think we're all on the same page here. Will make for an interesting Eagles night.

Yes I wish I were going to be there, I have long enjoyed a robust discussion. If you let me get a word in edge-ways I might even have been persuaded to get the beers in ;)

Next time I'm in town, I promise!




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Postby JR8 » Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:34 pm

Brah wrote:I was never a Trekkie and the movies were pretty so-so except the last one.

But to the 'humanity' point, I love this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilY4hRgfC2Q&

JR's gonna slay me as a BHL for this.....

And this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp3OhC3NoMk&



Yep, you just dug your own hole there! :)

Star Trek is a fantasy pitched towards adolescents (the kind of people for whom daddy still pays for everything), but you're a smart guy and you know that... ;)

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Postby Brah » Sat, 17 Nov 2012 9:25 am

Yep, this would be more interesting as an actual verbal conversation, with the others present, though you might find me to be more on the quiet side.

If some of your blue responses may be taking the piss, this article is just one example of what I was referring to, and my main premise:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/11/1 ... CC20121116

"(Reuters) - Major banks have announced some 160,000 job cuts since early last year and with more lay-offs to come as the industry restructures, many will leave the shrinking sector for good as redundancies outpace new hires by roughly two-to-one.

The tally of nearly 160,000 job cut plans, meanwhile, is likely to be a conservative estimate as smaller banks and brokers are also cutting staff or shutting up shop, and bigger banks have not always disclosed target numbers of lay-offs."


JR8 wrote:
brah wrote:I'm talking mainly about the amount of people, not just traders, etc. , employed by Finance firms from the 80s until now, and how those numbers are getting lower and lower. And if those job numbers are not being created in other industries, then where are these people going to work?

Are the global #'s lower? It would surprise me, simply because more people in the world need banking services, and you can only automate so far.

I'm sure you've seen articles about college students being advised to reconsider careers in Finance as it's no longer the Holy Grail of job opportunities it was only a few years back.

Honestly no I haven't, and I consider myself well up on current affairs. Though I do accept that employment sectors and career-advice are not really things that are on my radar any more.


As far as investing, at least in the States, the kinds of average people who gambled in the stock market pre- and even post- dot.com boom are now few and far between.

I thought we were talking about investing earlier? That is a long way away from gambling. If you are say talking about people quitting med school to become day traders, well more fool them. Yes I KNOW someone who did that, jeez what a numb-nuts! <shock>

And with the frightening and persistent unemployment rate there, people barely have money for food and shelter, that very significant segment of the once-investing public certainly is not investing. I'm sure the rich continue to invest.

It sounds as if you are suggesting the US is in the midst of dire straights, nay depression. Did I miss something?

So I'm sure you're correct in that there are fewer, richer people benefiting whereas not long ago more people had a better quality of life, jobs, less fear of unemployment, and 'disposable' income with which to invest.

I said all of that, funny I don't remember any of it?! :)

[joke re: Khmer Rough]

Nice one. But not quite that drastic of course. Finance, Wall Street anyway, is largely about money,

Well of course, it doesn't pretend to be about anything else, I can't see why it should. But to wha\t ends is that money used is more to the point IMO?

whereas lives are saved in hospitals,

Built using Wall Street money

inventions are created in tech companies, music and art are created by artists, scientists create cures for diseases, etc.

Ditto re: Wall street, except some artists who are poor. Jeez even major musical groups sell their collective future rights (via banks) these days.


It's surely an arguable point, and has been debated to death on forums and sites like HuffPo

Yeugh, 'dirty commie site'! ;)

by those who feel quite strongly about it, and while I may not be one of them, and while some of them are misguided into thinking dogmatically that money=greed=bad etc. you're more likely to find more reasons where over the past decade the Finance industry has screwed up people, homes, families, states, countries, etc. than the contrary.

Here you go again. What did banks do, go and hold a gun to their heads and force them to take loans out? In any case where there has been mis-selling people are entitled to compensation.

I think zzm9980's said rant was a more eloquent explanation than mine.

I just read Callput's post that followed mine, he's totally right and I think we're all on the same page here. Will make for an interesting Eagles night.

Yes I wish I were going to be there, I have long enjoyed a robust discussion. If you let me get a word in edge-ways I might even have been persuaded to get the beers in ;)

Next time I'm in town, I promise!




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Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 19 Nov 2012 2:10 pm

Oil and gas is an interesting alternative, but don't you think that its fate is imminent collapse by the very nature of theat industry itself? And it may happen rather sooner than later. Maybe, in the nearest half century. Unless people find some alternative source of energy or use more nuclear power (not oil and gas anymore).

While finance is immortal. It is just sometimes weeker, sometimes stronger.

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Postby nakatago » Mon, 19 Nov 2012 2:20 pm

Sergei82 wrote:Oil and gas is an interesting alternative, but don't you think that its fate is imminent collapse by the very nature of theat industry itself? And it may happen rather sooner than later. Maybe, in the nearest half century. Unless people find some alternative source of energy or use more nuclear power (not oil and gas anymore).

While finance is immortal. It is just sometimes weeker, sometimes stronger.


It may serve as a stop gap during financial weakness. O&G may be going away but it's not happening that fast. At least not in the next 3 years or so.

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Postby Callput » Mon, 19 Nov 2012 2:33 pm

O&G is will remain hot for a long time to come, nuclear energy is in reverse gear ever since the Japan tsunami.

Canada is the place to be if you are into O&G. Alberta in particular. What say OSOD? ;)

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Postby nakatago » Mon, 19 Nov 2012 2:36 pm

Callput wrote:O&G is will remain hot for a long time to come, nuclear energy is in reverse gear ever since the Japan tsunami.

Canada is the place to be if you are into O&G. Alberta in particular. What say OSOD? ;)


Don't rush him; he's still seething over the SQ website.


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