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EP rejected. Meet MOM?

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Postby the lynx » Thu, 01 Nov 2012 12:09 pm

bapobear wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Where is your degree from? Is is Sunway by chance?

It is local uni University of Malaya. Why? They blacklisted some of them?


UM is not bad. But what was your qualification in (degree, masters, PhD, engineering, biotech, etc?) and what industry are you working in and what role is your job in that company? If it is not relevant to your vocation, or it is something that locals should be able to fill up easily, then you may hit a snag there.

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Postby bapobear » Thu, 01 Nov 2012 12:23 pm

the lynx wrote:
bapobear wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Where is your degree from? Is is Sunway by chance?

It is local uni University of Malaya. Why? They blacklisted some of them?


UM is not bad. But what was your qualification in (degree, masters, PhD, engineering, biotech, etc?) and what industry are you working in and what role is your job in that company? If it is not relevant to your vocation, or it is something that locals should be able to fill up easily, then you may hit a snag there.

It is degree. I studied and work related to building, which is like kopitiam industry, could hardly see a singaporean. But it can be replaced easily by other foreigners, it is always popular for malaysian and now philipinos. That could be a factor, doesn't make sense and conflicts per se tho.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 01 Nov 2012 2:24 pm

Under the "tightened" criteria for S passes, the academic qualification now is more specific in that it has to be in line with the position being applied for. This is a reason why a lot of my S pass holders lost their S passes on renewals the pas 1.5 years. No long will a B.Sc History, Business, Psychology, etc., e.g., non-technical degrees be considered (generally speaking) for Technical positions. This is just an example that I do know for fact as I've been getting rejections with things like "no longer qualifies under current criteria".

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Postby v4jr4 » Thu, 01 Nov 2012 2:42 pm

This is a little bit catchy:
bapobear wrote:Even a chinese prc with lower salary, just diploma can get ep but not me.


No one knows how MoM will approve the EP, but again, I can't help but to think that there's a "cherry picking" or "EP quota" for each company :P
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Postby vishalgupta2 » Thu, 01 Nov 2012 10:26 pm

bapobear wrote:
the lynx wrote:
bapobear wrote:Actually i did not get any increment for jumping ship. It is just that they are much bigger company and happens that they would like to offer me.
As i heard that mom officer would tell the reason if meet them personally so just want to check whether it works..


You do realise that currently the government is tightening on the number of foreign workers across the board, especially on S Pass (but also happens to EP). So anyone who is just a Tom, Dick and Harry in job search will find themselves in hard position to secure an approval or booted out the moment they try to renew the current passes.

The only way to increase your chance of getting approved is to get a way higher income to prove that you're of high value to the company (and to the government in your taxes). Or have a job scope that is highly niched and favourable.

Of course you can always try to meet in person. Who knows you may be the lucky one who actually gets an answer from MOM themselves. Do keep us updated on MOM's response.

I am not sure if it was because my qualification or salary. I got less than 2k and was fresh graduate when i got my first job in singapore yet i still got spass. The next applications just got rejected, all of them, even after 3 years in Singapore i still not qualified. I found that weird, all HRs felt so. Even a chinese prc with lower salary, just diploma can get ep but not me. Thats really double standard of mom but nothing can complain :(


Think of it this way. MOM doesn't have anything against you personally. If they said NO to you, there has to be a reason. Just because you don't know the reason doesn't mean that MOM has NO clue about what they are doing. If I was you, I would spend my energy retrospecting, looking at the application from MOM's PoV and trying to find what may have gone wrong.

When you compare a chinese prc getting a ep, you are DEFINITELY going in the wrong direction on ethical, human and personal grounds. prc is not the flavor of the month, so you can't say that they would have got any preferential treatment. Please go back to the drawing board, look at your application again from MOM's PoV and try to find hints on what may have gone wrong.

I still remember the lines from my MA driving manual saying something like, "when you are pulled over, you can't tell the officer that others were also driving fast or that there were others driving faster than you." I don't know how these lines make sense here, but the comparison you made just reminded me of the lines.

I think you are just upset (and for valid reasons, you have your career at stake). Relax, have a small cup of some good wine or mike's hard lime and think patiently, you will definitely find what went wrong and fix it.

Good luck

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Postby bapobear » Fri, 02 Nov 2012 8:21 am

vishalgupta2 wrote:
bapobear wrote:
the lynx wrote:
bapobear wrote:Actually i did not get any increment for jumping ship. It is just that they are much bigger company and happens that they would like to offer me.
As i heard that mom officer would tell the reason if meet them personally so just want to check whether it works..


You do realise that currently the government is tightening on the number of foreign workers across the board, especially on S Pass (but also happens to EP). So anyone who is just a Tom, Dick and Harry in job search will find themselves in hard position to secure an approval or booted out the moment they try to renew the current passes.

The only way to increase your chance of getting approved is to get a way higher income to prove that you're of high value to the company (and to the government in your taxes). Or have a job scope that is highly niched and favourable.

Of course you can always try to meet in person. Who knows you may be the lucky one who actually gets an answer from MOM themselves. Do keep us updated on MOM's response.

I am not sure if it was because my qualification or salary. I got less than 2k and was fresh graduate when i got my first job in singapore yet i still got spass. The next applications just got rejected, all of them, even after 3 years in Singapore i still not qualified. I found that weird, all HRs felt so. Even a chinese prc with lower salary, just diploma can get ep but not me. Thats really double standard of mom but nothing can complain :(


Think of it this way. MOM doesn't have anything against you personally. If they said NO to you, there has to be a reason. Just because you don't know the reason doesn't mean that MOM has NO clue about what they are doing. If I was you, I would spend my energy retrospecting, looking at the application from MOM's PoV and trying to find what may have gone wrong.

When you compare a chinese prc getting a ep, you are DEFINITELY going in the wrong direction on ethical, human and personal grounds. prc is not the flavor of the month, so you can't say that they would have got any preferential treatment. Please go back to the drawing board, look at your application again from MOM's PoV and try to find hints on what may have gone wrong.

I still remember the lines from my MA driving manual saying something like, "when you are pulled over, you can't tell the officer that others were also driving fast or that there were others driving faster than you." I don't know how these lines make sense here, but the comparison you made just reminded me of the lines.

I think you are just upset (and for valid reasons, you have your career at stake). Relax, have a small cup of some good wine or mike's hard lime and think patiently, you will definitely find what went wrong and fix it.

Good luck

If u have read my post and others, you would find out that it is nearly impossible to find out whats going wrong with my application. The best way is the officer to tell me what is the problem. But as yourself mentioned they are not obliged to tell. We would never figure out whats the reason as none of us know what is their standard of evaluation.
By the way, when i mentioned prc, i have seen my company prc holding food nutrition diploma working same position as mine and she got the spass. I am not saying just because 'prc'. Comparing by nationality, malaysian are more common here, qualification, i am not any worse than hers. So they prefer a food nutrition diploma holder to build their buildings?

and of course i am upset. I have doubted through all the possible reasons but without the officer tell me the real reason, it would be difficult for me to fix it. The HR most likely would not waste time on just an application, they could easily take away the offer and give it to someone else with better chance of approval .if the problem continue to exist it means i can never get a better career or anything u could think of with ep/spass.

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Postby bapobear » Fri, 02 Nov 2012 8:52 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Under the "tightened" criteria for S passes, the academic qualification now is more specific in that it has to be in line with the position being applied for. This is a reason why a lot of my S pass holders lost their S passes on renewals the pas 1.5 years. No long will a B.Sc History, Business, Psychology, etc., e.g., non-technical degrees be considered (generally speaking) for Technical positions. This is just an example that I do know for fact as I've been getting rejections with things like "no longer qualifies under current criteria".

That is not true. Please see my reply above. An exception case happened in my company.

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Postby the lynx » Fri, 02 Nov 2012 8:58 am

bapobear wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Under the "tightened" criteria for S passes, the academic qualification now is more specific in that it has to be in line with the position being applied for. This is a reason why a lot of my S pass holders lost their S passes on renewals the pas 1.5 years. No long will a B.Sc History, Business, Psychology, etc., e.g., non-technical degrees be considered (generally speaking) for Technical positions. This is just an example that I do know for fact as I've been getting rejections with things like "no longer qualifies under current criteria".

That is not true. Please see my reply above. An exception case happened in my company.


Just curious, what did that 'PRC' put in her application that you think might've swung her outcome favourably? One may think that on the surface, she doesn't deserve it any better than you but perhaps, just perhaps, there is something more that she is giving it to ICA to favour her, and the answer is in the application form?

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Postby bapobear » Fri, 02 Nov 2012 9:21 am

the lynx wrote:
bapobear wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Under the "tightened" criteria for S passes, the academic qualification now is more specific in that it has to be in line with the position being applied for. This is a reason why a lot of my S pass holders lost their S passes on renewals the pas 1.5 years. No long will a B.Sc History, Business, Psychology, etc., e.g., non-technical degrees be considered (generally speaking) for Technical positions. This is just an example that I do know for fact as I've been getting rejections with things like "no longer qualifies under current criteria".

That is not true. Please see my reply above. An exception case happened in my company.


Just curious, what did that 'PRC' put in her application that you think might've swung her outcome favourably? One may think that on the surface, she doesn't deserve it any better than you but perhaps, just perhaps, there is something more that she is giving it to ICA to favour her, and the answer is in the application form?

I would love to know as well. She has one year experience in this field before she came to my company. A new colleague who just got approved on april this year. I do not think she would have any related qualification except the one year experience. or maybe just because she graduated in singapore poly? It really confuses me. And i have talked to many friends, asked stories, read online, thats why i think mom has double standard...

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Postby Mi Amigo » Fri, 02 Nov 2012 9:28 am

bapobear wrote:The best way is the officer to tell me what is the problem.

I sympathise and can understand your disappointment, but what we are trying to tell you is that it's not normal for the authorities to explain their reasons for rejecting an application. The applicant has no right to such information; you might get 'lucky' and find a friendly officer prepared to give you some details, but equally you might also p!$$ them off by pushing for information, with the result that perhaps they'll mark you down with some negative comments for any future applications that are made in your name.

All the above is pure conjecture on my part of course, but I'm just trying to do what others are suggesting and look at it from the MOM's perspective. There's a very long queue of people wanting to come and work in Singapore, so they have their own systems and procedures for dealing with that and are under no obligation to explain their internal processes to anyone.
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby v4jr4 » Fri, 02 Nov 2012 9:48 am

bapobear wrote:
the lynx wrote:
bapobear wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Under the "tightened" criteria for S passes, the academic qualification now is more specific in that it has to be in line with the position being applied for. This is a reason why a lot of my S pass holders lost their S passes on renewals the pas 1.5 years. No long will a B.Sc History, Business, Psychology, etc., e.g., non-technical degrees be considered (generally speaking) for Technical positions. This is just an example that I do know for fact as I've been getting rejections with things like "no longer qualifies under current criteria".

That is not true. Please see my reply above. An exception case happened in my company.


Just curious, what did that 'PRC' put in her application that you think might've swung her outcome favourably? One may think that on the surface, she doesn't deserve it any better than you but perhaps, just perhaps, there is something more that she is giving it to ICA to favour her, and the answer is in the application form?

I would love to know as well. She has one year experience in this field before she came to my company. A new colleague who just got approved on april this year. I do not think she would have any related qualification except the one year experience. or maybe just because she graduated in singapore poly? It really confuses me. And i have talked to many friends, asked stories, read online, thats why i think mom has double standard...


Now now. How about putting out the comparison between you and the PRC girl data in here? Your age, race, nationality, etc, vs hers. Let's say, if you are 30+, while the PRC girl is not even 23, I will say "That's why."
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Postby bapobear » Fri, 02 Nov 2012 10:10 am

v4jr4 wrote:
bapobear wrote:
the lynx wrote:
bapobear wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Under the "tightened" criteria for S passes, the academic qualification now is more specific in that it has to be in line with the position being applied for. This is a reason why a lot of my S pass holders lost their S passes on renewals the pas 1.5 years. No long will a B.Sc History, Business, Psychology, etc., e.g., non-technical degrees be considered (generally speaking) for Technical positions. This is just an example that I do know for fact as I've been getting rejections with things like "no longer qualifies under current criteria".

That is not true. Please see my reply above. An exception case happened in my company.


Just curious, what did that 'PRC' put in her application that you think might've swung her outcome favourably? One may think that on the surface, she doesn't deserve it any better than you but perhaps, just perhaps, there is something more that she is giving it to ICA to favour her, and the answer is in the application form?

I would love to know as well. She has one year experience in this field before she came to my company. A new colleague who just got approved on april this year. I do not think she would have any related qualification except the one year experience. or maybe just because she graduated in singapore poly? It really confuses me. And i have talked to many friends, asked stories, read online, thats why i think mom has double standard...



Now now. How about putting out the comparison between you and the PRC girl data in here? Your age, race, nationality, etc, vs hers. Let's say, if you are 30+, while the PRC girl is not even 23, I will say "That's why."

Hmm fair enough. Lol i am 25 she is 22.

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Postby Saint » Fri, 02 Nov 2012 10:21 am

You forgot to mention race/nationality?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 02 Nov 2012 10:40 am

Saint wrote:You forgot to mention race/nationality?


He: Malaysian Chinese; She: PRC

He: Degree from Malaysian University (possibly the problem - if coupled with a non-relevant degree). She: unknown level of qualifications - only Diploma but field of study not known.

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Postby the lynx » Fri, 02 Nov 2012 10:46 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Saint wrote:You forgot to mention race/nationality?


He: Malaysian Chinese; She: PRC

He: Degree from Malaysian University (possibly the problem - if coupled with a non-relevant degree). She: unknown level of qualifications - only Diploma but field of study not known.


He: 25; She: 22

He: University of Malaya (quite a good government university actually - a twin of NUS in history); She: Food nutrition diploma (don't know from which institution though)

Industry: Building (construction, he meant?)


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