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Current Job outlook for IT Finance professionals

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

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Sergei82
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Postby Sergei82 » Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:36 am

Callput wrote:So far all layoffs have affected the contractors.


Due to dubious practice of CS in SG to hire almost everybody on vendor contract for the last few years (again, in our dept), if they lay off more contractors here, they end up closing their business (most of AVPs will not handle the job themselves - they're just humanized "communication links" and "report processors"). Unless everything goes to Pune though...

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Postby Callput » Fri, 23 Nov 2012 10:40 am

Sergei82 wrote:
Callput wrote:So far all layoffs have affected the contractors.


Due to dubious practice of CS in SG to hire almost everybody on vendor contract for the last few years (again, in our dept), if they lay off more contractors here, they end up closing their business (most of AVPs will not handle the job themselves - they're just humanized "communication links" and "report processors"). Unless everything goes to Pune though...


Yeah your dept looks more top heavy, so more likely that AVPs will get fired and not contractors.

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Postby minpatel79 » Sun, 25 Nov 2012 4:34 am

Thanks for the info. Whats the current market like - more layoffs than hires?
Recruiter just seem to get back to me - even the ones I have been recommended from recruiter contacts in the UK.

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Postby Callput » Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:02 am

Definitely on a net basis you will headcount reduction in banking, not just Singapore but globally, atleast until end of 2015. Only place where I see headcount addition is India:)

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Postby Sergei82 » Sun, 25 Nov 2012 11:09 pm

Callput wrote:Definitely on a net basis you will headcount reduction in banking, not just Singapore but globally, atleast until end of 2015. Only place where I see headcount addition is India:)


I agree about next year. But what makes you think it will last for 3 years at least? Financial sector recovers pretty fast once it hits the right path (I may be wrong though)...

Btw, some smaller companies that do IT for financial services see revenue increase (at least those few I know about) - they tend to have more clients now as those who were clients of MNCs start cooperating with smaller companies - it's cheaper, moreover quality often is higher because there is so much less bureaucracy.

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Postby Callput » Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:55 am

Sergei82 wrote:
Callput wrote:Definitely on a net basis you will headcount reduction in banking, not just Singapore but globally, atleast until end of 2015. Only place where I see headcount addition is India:)


I agree about next year. But what makes you think it will last for 3 years at least? Financial sector recovers pretty fast once it hits the right path (I may be wrong though)...

Btw, some smaller companies that do IT for financial services see revenue increase (at least those few I know about) - they tend to have more clients now as those who were clients of MNCs start cooperating with smaller companies - it's cheaper, moreover quality often is higher because there is so much less bureaucracy.


The reason I said it will last atleast 3 years is because the cost cutting program of most banks is long term. Banks are still adjusting their operating model to face the "New Normal" :). HSBC has been in cutting mode for last 3 years, Citi also and now UBS and CS are joining them. Other banks too I believe are in same mode. Also the ecnomy is not expected to recover in the next few years for the banks to get back into the growth mode. Banks are now not looking at increasing revenue to improve profitability but instead to reduce cost, to improve margins.

Regarding joining IT companies that serve banking clients, is a good idea, especially if you are a true techie who likes more of development work and new work everytime.
Working directly for banks is good if you like a relax and laid back job where you keep doing the same thing for decades together. I am actually of the latter type, so would continue to work for the bank as long as I can :)

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Postby v4jr4 » Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:02 pm

Callput wrote:Regarding joining IT companies that serve banking clients, is a good idea, especially if you are a true techie who likes more of development work and new work everytime.
Working directly for banks is good if you like a relax and laid back job where you keep doing the same thing for decades together. I am actually of the latter type, so would continue to work for the bank as long as I can :)


Well, being a code monkey, somehow, I think the lifespan is not that long. Although I've been going through techie things for several years, age and skills are the main obstacles. Let's say, for someone who always works with SAP, when the company decides to change to struts, although it's manageable, I still say it's shocking. Let's see how things will go from here :lol:
"Budget Expat"

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Postby Callput » Mon, 26 Nov 2012 12:44 pm

v4jr4 wrote:
Callput wrote:Regarding joining IT companies that serve banking clients, is a good idea, especially if you are a true techie who likes more of development work and new work everytime.
Working directly for banks is good if you like a relax and laid back job where you keep doing the same thing for decades together. I am actually of the latter type, so would continue to work for the bank as long as I can :)


Well, being a code monkey, somehow, I think the lifespan is not that long. Although I've been going through techie things for several years, age and skills are the main obstacles. Let's say, for someone who always works with SAP, when the company decides to change to struts, although it's manageable, I still say it's shocking. Let's see how things will go from here :lol:


Agree, my goal however has been to make and save as much money as possible as long as the going is good, at the same time try to be in as relax job as possible to have good time with family. At the moment I am hitting that perfect chord and having very good savings working in IT for last 10 yrs.

Haven't really planned much about future, but I will take it as it comes, because I have a good buffer :)

I am that lazy kind of person, who wouldn't try to learn something new unless I am pushed and have no other choice, haha. I am working in SQL server business intelligence, btw :)

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 26 Nov 2012 5:35 pm

Callput wrote:The reason I said it will last atleast 3 years is because the cost cutting program of most banks is long term.


Things must have changed since my day. Back then they announced cuts, and they were completed that week, if not that day. The reason being you cannot possibly expect the personal commitment and motivation required from staff in investment banks (like, unpaid overtime every single week) if you permanently live in the shadow of being summarily turfed out.

So rather than cuts lasting 3 years, back in my day they lasted a day or two and happened every three years, almost like clockwork, vis. '89/92/95/98/01..05/08/[.. ?]

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Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:15 pm

JR8 wrote:
Callput wrote:The reason I said it will last atleast 3 years is because the cost cutting program of most banks is long term.


Things must have changed since my day. Back then they announced cuts, and they were completed that week, if not that day. The reason being you cannot possibly expect the personal commitment and motivation required from staff in investment banks (like, unpaid overtime every single week) if you permanently live in the shadow of being summarily turfed out.

So rather than cuts lasting 3 years, back in my day they lasted a day or two and happened every three years, almost like clockwork, vis. '89/92/95/98/01..05/08/[.. ?]


Makes sense to me though. We're regularly receiving e-mails that our company will not lay off a lot of people, most of headcount reduction will come out of natural turnover. That is here we go - no bonuses and same salary for the 3rd consecutive year (except upper management) - that alone (housing up, taxes up etc) made a lot of people I know update their CVs by now, plus real danger that they may indeed lay off somebody - adds some gasoline into fire. Therefore, natural turnover is not expected to be low. Reduced headcount in Singapore will be compensated by increased cheaper headcount in Pune. Image of our bank is safe - no layoffs made during recession, we are very good employer (employees' opinion is not important, if you don't like, you can join the natural turnover).

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:25 pm

Yeah, it's a hard game, but while you're on a roll the rewards can be good.

Probably the smartest thing I've done (or has penetrated my quite thick skull) is to realise that nothing is forever, and to always prepare as best as one can for a plan #B, because odds on you're never going to predict when the dung hits the fan, but you can be sure that it will... sometime!

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Postby Sergei82 » Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:40 pm

JR8 wrote:Yeah, it's a hard game, but while you're on a roll the rewards can be good.

Probably the smartest thing I've done (or has penetrated my quite thick skull) is to realise that nothing is forever, and to always prepare as best as one can for a plan #B, because odds on you're never going to predict when the dung hits the fan, but you can be sure that it will... sometime!


Agree, but (probably) Callput was suggesting to relax, do nothing and go with the flow... better book a nice place in the graveyard in advance!

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:09 am

Yeah. I always lived well under my means. No Ferrari, no Gucci clad girlfriends, but classy, grounded and sensible ones instead.

I saw many of my colleagues blown to bits by living a life to 250% of their income until the crap hit the fan, and then everything seemingly fell apart for them (lost their wife (who couldn't deal with the loss of a 6 figure lifestyle), house, car, children, career, ... the works).

p.s. I lived for about 10 key years (in retrospect) from say 25 - 35, advancing well in my career but not allowing myself a significant change in my lifestyle. In any case I was working too hard to enjoy it. I saved a lot, and it all went into buying central London property of which I am the landlord.

I'm not bragging (as there are definite pros and cons as should be clear, plus for what ever I've manged I know plenty who've done it 10* more sucessfully), but it left me a 'gentleman of leisure' and set up for life to do pretty much as I please by the age of 40 or so. For a 'school drop-out, useless at exams, likely going nowhere', I do admit to now and again having a last laugh to myself, versus the naturally scholastic of my peers, 25 years later, still at it 50+ hours a week to maintain their banking careers, Porsche's and $wives...

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Postby noskich » Tue, 27 Nov 2012 9:11 am

JR8 wrote:Yeah. I always lived well under I saved a lot, and it all went into buying central London property of which I am the landlord.


Just curious, what is your annual net ROI?

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Postby Callput » Tue, 27 Nov 2012 10:23 am

JR8 wrote:Yeah. I always lived well under my means. No Ferrari, no Gucci clad girlfriends, but classy, grounded and sensible ones instead.

I saw many of my colleagues blown to bits by living a life to 250% of their income until the crap hit the fan, and then everything seemingly fell apart for them (lost their wife (who couldn't deal with the loss of a 6 figure lifestyle), house, car, children, career, ... the works).

p.s. I lived for about 10 key years (in retrospect) from say 25 - 35, advancing well in my career but not allowing myself a significant change in my lifestyle. In any case I was working too hard to enjoy it. I saved a lot, and it all went into buying central London property of which I am the landlord.

I'm not bragging (as there are definite pros and cons as should be clear, plus for what ever I've manged I know plenty who've done it 10* more sucessfully), but it left me a 'gentleman of leisure' and set up for life to do pretty much as I please by the age of 40 or so. For a 'school drop-out, useless at exams, likely going nowhere', I do admit to now and again having a last laugh to myself, versus the naturally scholastic of my peers, 25 years later, still at it 50+ hours a week to maintain their banking careers, Porsche's and $wives...


JR8, you are an Indian ! :D :lol:


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