Singapore Expats Forum

PR REJECTED - UK EXPAT

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
vestapo
Member
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue, 25 Sep 2012

Postby vestapo » Sat, 06 Oct 2012 7:12 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
martincymru wrote:I may apply as a fresh/new application in say 1 or 2 years time (say) but have no idea as to the ideal moment in time that will more likely achieve a positive result. Very tedious to repeat same old history/ paperwork/ interview etc.
My question though is....
Surely ICA have a moral/ethical responsibility to inform, even in the vaguest terms, the reason(s) for rejection. Otherwise future applications may simply be wasting everybody's time.

The quote below is taken from their letter (I have no idea why the numeral
2
appears!). Comments appreciated :-


[i] I refer to your application for permanent residence.

2 After careful assessment, we regret to inform you that your application is not successful. Nevertheless, you can continue to work and reside here on your valid Work Pass. [i]

//
With regard to PEP I thought this is not tied to Employer? Therefore the comment "get your Employer to apply confuses me". Will MOM notify me or do I need to be pro active? what type of pass am I likely to be offered?


That, sorry to say, is the kiss of death for your PR aspirations. What they are telling you is that you are, and will remain, nothing but hired help.

They are not obligated to tell you the exact reason for your rejection and there is a very practical reason for this. It's been found, especially with some applicants from 3rd world countries, that if you state the reasons, they will collect all this information and then try to create tailor made applications to enhance their chances of approval. Regardless of the amount of times we tell them that each is evaluated on an individual basis using a collection of points (of which we don't have a clue what they are), with which they determine you viability. Often they will tell someone to reapply in two years, or within 6 months (these definitely have a positive chance an maybe ICA only wants to see their "staying power" or they didn't meet the current criteria (which isn't made public as well - they keep their cards close to their collective chests). Unfortunately, yours, we have only ever hear of one time it being overturned and even then, it was from a combative newbie on here so we don't know how much was BS and how much was fact. We can only go by anecdotal evidence and thus far, in the 7 years I've been on the board, I've never heard of one ever being overturned.

So, at least, with this information, you are armed with the knowledge that any possible offers here or elsewhere that look good are worth considering as here, the position will only remain a job and not a future.

sms

edited to add the following....

From what I can see of your basic criteria, I would guess ICA's decision is based on the fact that you are already 55 and single. What could the country "gain" by giving you PR? The odds are you will remain single (if you have avoided yellow fever this long already), so you will not be adding to the TFR but making it even worse as you would be adding population that will not produce offspring. Tax dollars? They already are getting that, but additional subsidies that you would get takes back some of those tax dollars, therefore, there is no net gain for the country. You have to look at it from a Little Red Dot with limited resources point of view.



Oh my god THIS IS TOTALLY NOT TRUE!!! I am the counter example! In 2006 I applied for PR and received a rejection letter with exactly the same wording that I can continue to work on my existing work pass. Then I went on to complete my Master degree at NTU and received a PR invitation letter after I completed the program, I was granted PR 3 months after that. The letter simply means that you are not eligible at that time only and not forever. On the other hand, I see another one received a letter saying that they can apply after 1 year, he reapplied after 1 year and got a rejection letter asking him to reapply after 6 months, after another 6 months he reapplied and received a rejection letter saying that he is welcome to work in Singapore on his work pass!

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35159
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 06 Oct 2012 8:46 pm

Sorry. I misread vestapo's post and thought it was posted by martincymru. That is why the confusion on the follow post that I've deleted as it didn't make sense.
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Sun, 07 Oct 2012 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6842
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011
Location: Once more unto the breach

Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 06 Oct 2012 8:52 pm

vestapo wrote:S IS TOTALLY NOT TRUE!!! I am the counter example! In 2006 I applied for PR and received a rejection letter with exactly the same wording that I can continue to work on my existing work pass. Then I went on to complete my Master degree at NTU and received a PR invitation letter after I completed the program, I was granted PR 3 months after that.


Ignoring SMS's very interesting points for a second and taking this at face value, there are two things about your situation that are very different about the OP's:

1) You received a Masters at NTU, thus changing your original application criteria in a very significant way. The OP is not likely at his age to go and get a masters just to get a PR, and even if he was, his age still works against him more than any Masters would.

2) It's been established that the government has one a 180 on PR invitation letters to foreign graduates of local schools. Most of them are lucky to get EPs for jobs they're well qualified for nowadays.

edit to add a #3 as I just read your old post:
3) You're Indonesian Chinese. Apparently your Masters didn't do you much good if you haven't even learned enough about living in Singapore to know that the government is very discriminatory and you're part of Harrys Aryan race.

vestapo
Member
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue, 25 Sep 2012

Postby vestapo » Sat, 06 Oct 2012 10:47 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Sorry. I misread vestapo's post and thought it was posted by martincymru. That is why the confusion on the follow post that I've deleted as it didn't make sense.|


I am afraid you read it wrong, I was working on an Employment Pass before I went on to study and that study was after I was retrenced so I was on a student pass and got the PR letter. Before I studied, I did apply when I was working on the EP and was rejected with the similar wording letter like the OP. I just want to say that the MYTH that some are posting here that the wording of the letter indicate a deadend for PR is wrong! Because I am a counter example for that! Believe or not it is your matter and I do not care!

User avatar
v4jr4
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 887
Joined: Mon, 09 Jul 2012
Location: Chocolate Factory

Postby v4jr4 » Sat, 06 Oct 2012 11:12 pm

vestapo wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:I'm afraid you have completely thrown me off the track as your first post says one thing and your last says something else. You are going to have to tell us straight if you want us to have a clue as to your REAL situation.

In your first post you indicated you have never had PR.

In your last post you indicated you got your PR 3 months after graduating with your Masters Degree.

Which is it. :-|


I am afraid you read it wrong, I was working on an Employment Pass before I went on to study and that study was after I was retrenced so I was on a student pass and got the PR letter. Before I studied, I did apply when I was working on the EP and was rejected with the similar wording letter like the OP. I just want to say that the MYTH that some are posting here that the wording of the letter indicate a deadend for PR is wrong! Because I am a counter example for that! Believe or not it is your matter and I do not care!


. . . and should we start yelling "bravo"? jadi kita harus teriak "bravo", gitu? :roll:

Unless you're 55 years old and single back then, like OP's current situation, again, you can't compare your case in the past with current situation. Rules changed.

Side note: I have a doubt of this vestapo account. Troll? :P
"Budget Expat"

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9318
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Sun, 07 Oct 2012 7:33 am

vestapo wrote:I just want to say that the MYTH that some are posting here that the wording of the letter indicate a deadend for PR is wrong! Because I am a counter example for that! Believe or not it is your matter and I do not care!

But your case simply and unconditionally confirms the "myth".

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35159
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 07 Oct 2012 3:20 pm

vestapo wrote:I am afraid you read it wrong, I was working on an Employment Pass before I went on to study and that study was after I was retrenced so I was on a student pass and got the PR letter. Before I studied, I did apply when I was working on the EP and was rejected with the similar wording letter like the OP. I just want to say that the MYTH that some are posting here that the wording of the letter indicate a deadend for PR is wrong! Because I am a counter example for that! Believe or not it is your matter and I do not care!


While I confused your post with the OP's post initially, it still is not a counter example as you didn't file the same application that you filed initially. Things were different on your second application. You also included a locally obtained masters degree. That, coupled with the ethnic grouping, was enough to swing the tide in your favour. Had you reapplied without the masters, I reckon your results would have been identical to the initial application.

adyoung2
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon, 10 Jan 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada

Postby adyoung2 » Sun, 07 Oct 2012 3:39 pm

As I await my own PR decision - which, albeit, is a completely different scenario from the OP - I found this thread rather interesting from the point of view of attempting to understand the various types of letters that ICA can send out (not including the positive one!!).

Apart from the rejection letters that feature the "you may reapply in XX time period", and the "you may continue to remain under your valid EP", what are the others? I'd imagine there is a simple rejection with no conditions, essentially saying "thanks, but no thanks".

Any first hand experiences of the latter "simple rejection" type?

In the meantime, I continue to wait - and bake - in Dubai ;)

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35159
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 07 Oct 2012 3:51 pm

The simple rejection letter is now the one that say you are welcome to continue to work here on an EP or S pass only. In other words, ICA is not interested in you, but MOM may still be interested in you. ICA is for PR, MOM for Employment Passes.

BBCDoc
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue, 05 Oct 2010
Location: Singapore

Rejected

Postby BBCDoc » Tue, 30 Oct 2012 9:24 pm

Hi,

My wife and I just got our rejection letters, seems to be some serious social engineering going on...

I am a British born Chinese, and my wife is Japanese.

Our common statistics:

Age:35
Education: B.Sc, M.Sc and Ph.D (both educated in the UK)
Both had post-doctoral studies in the USA
I had worked on an HIV vaccine

Both work for MNC, I have been here for 2 years, wife for 7 months.

Got the rejection letter inviting me to enjoy my work pass while it lasts....

Bit bummed, will tell my manager tomorrow the outcome and considering asking for alternative options in other sites...

Thanks for all the information BTW, wouldn't say glad to be in the sameboat as others, but misery loves company I guess....
There's always room for one more

lolipop99
Regular
Regular
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun, 01 Jul 2012

Re: Rejected

Postby lolipop99 » Tue, 30 Oct 2012 9:54 pm

BBCDoc wrote:Hi,

My wife and I just got our rejection letters, seems to be some serious social engineering going on...

I am a British born Chinese, and my wife is Japanese.

Our common statistics:

Age:35
Education: B.Sc, M.Sc and Ph.D (both educated in the UK)
Both had post-doctoral studies in the USA
I had worked on an HIV vaccine

Both work for MNC, I have been here for 2 years, wife for 7 months.

Got the rejection letter inviting me to enjoy my work pass while it lasts....

Bit bummed, will tell my manager tomorrow the outcome and considering asking for alternative options in other sites...

Thanks for all the information BTW, wouldn't say glad to be in the sameboat as others, but misery loves company I guess....


I am surprised you got rejected!! This is a very extreme case given that just 3 years ago they approved a Fillipino with diploma earning 1.8k a month within 2 months processing! I have a BIG QUESTION though if anyone knows the answer, is Chinese from other countries than Malaysia, say Hong Kong, USA, Canada, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia etc treated as NON CHINESE? Right now it seems only Malaysian Chinese will be approved while others no matter how highly qualified will receive a 2 sentence rejection. If there is social engineering, I would guess that they treat Chinese everywhere the same (perhaps except PRC because of the sheer value), but I think I am wrong, they do only count Chinese Malaysian as Chinese and the rest as others!?!?

User avatar
v4jr4
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 887
Joined: Mon, 09 Jul 2012
Location: Chocolate Factory

Re: Rejected

Postby v4jr4 » Tue, 30 Oct 2012 10:27 pm

lolipop99 wrote:I have a BIG QUESTION though if anyone knows the answer, is Chinese from other countries than Malaysia, say Hong Kong, USA, Canada, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia etc treated as NON CHINESE? Right now it seems only Malaysian Chinese will be approved while others no matter how highly qualified will receive a 2 sentence rejection. If there is social engineering, I would guess that they treat Chinese everywhere the same (perhaps except PRC because of the sheer value), but I think I am wrong, they do only count Chinese Malaysian as Chinese and the rest as others!?!?


I guess it's because the Malaysian Chinese is pretty "similar" with the Singaporean. Some of my friends, Indonesian born Chinese, got the PR rejection letter as well.
"Budget Expat"

User avatar
the lynx
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5272
Joined: Thu, 09 Dec 2010
Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location:

Re: Rejected

Postby the lynx » Tue, 30 Oct 2012 10:30 pm

lolipop99 wrote:I am surprised you got rejected!! This is a very extreme case given that just 3 years ago they approved a Fillipino with diploma earning 1.8k a month within 2 months processing! I have a BIG QUESTION though if anyone knows the answer, is Chinese from other countries than Malaysia, say Hong Kong, USA, Canada, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia etc treated as NON CHINESE? Right now it seems only Malaysian Chinese will be approved while others no matter how highly qualified will receive a 2 sentence rejection. If there is social engineering, I would guess that they treat Chinese everywhere the same (perhaps except PRC because of the sheer value), but I think I am wrong, they do only count Chinese Malaysian as Chinese and the rest as others!?!?


There, there. I know where you are coming from in your remarks.

The idea about social engineering at this point of time is that not just any Chinese makes the mark of being the flavour up there. With applications flooding into ICA, they can afford to be choosy and I believe, given the luxury, they want to go for not just any Chinese, but Chinese who can blend in with Singaporeans. And who else can do that better than Malaysian Chinese?

Their ball, their park, their rules.

Who knows, once they get sick of having too much Malaysian Chinese, perhaps they are going for Malays? Just saying.

User avatar
v4jr4
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 887
Joined: Mon, 09 Jul 2012
Location: Chocolate Factory

Re: Rejected

Postby v4jr4 » Tue, 30 Oct 2012 10:49 pm

the lynx wrote:
lolipop99 wrote:I am surprised you got rejected!! This is a very extreme case given that just 3 years ago they approved a Fillipino with diploma earning 1.8k a month within 2 months processing! I have a BIG QUESTION though if anyone knows the answer, is Chinese from other countries than Malaysia, say Hong Kong, USA, Canada, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia etc treated as NON CHINESE? Right now it seems only Malaysian Chinese will be approved while others no matter how highly qualified will receive a 2 sentence rejection. If there is social engineering, I would guess that they treat Chinese everywhere the same (perhaps except PRC because of the sheer value), but I think I am wrong, they do only count Chinese Malaysian as Chinese and the rest as others!?!?


There, there. I know where you are coming from in your remarks.

The idea about social engineering at this point of time is that not just any Chinese makes the mark of being the flavour up there. With applications flooding into ICA, they can afford to be choosy and I believe, given the luxury, they want to go for not just any Chinese, but Chinese who can blend in with Singaporeans. And who else can do that better than Malaysian Chinese?

Their ball, their park, their rules.

Who knows, once they get sick of having too much Malaysian Chinese, perhaps they are going for Malays? Just saying.


+1
Besides, living in Singapore is not that cheap.
"Budget Expat"


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “PR, Citizenship, Passes & Visas for Foreigners”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cwlun85 and 2 guests