Singapore Expats Forum

Average Ex-Pat Packages Now..

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

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nakatago
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Postby nakatago » Fri, 05 Oct 2012 4:45 pm

revhappy wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
noskich wrote:Hey col311, I would be very interested to hear which Australian IT companies are regularly sending employees as expats to Singapore?
I have long-term plans of moving over there and expat package would definitely be the sweetest deal. So it would certainly help to work and build a profile in a company which is likely to offer it.
Thanks for your help.


I've met some software testers here working for an Australian software testing house.


Lol. Software testers from Australia? :???: I thought testers were even low skill than code monkeys. Testing jobs are also the 1st ones that are getting kicked out to India at the moment.


I wouldn't call testing lower skill but it definitely is more tedious and better off outsourced to people with more patience, at least in the eyes of diva developers.

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Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 05 Oct 2012 6:42 pm

nakatago wrote:
revhappy wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
noskich wrote:Hey col311, I would be very interested to hear which Australian IT companies are regularly sending employees as expats to Singapore?
I have long-term plans of moving over there and expat package would definitely be the sweetest deal. So it would certainly help to work and build a profile in a company which is likely to offer it.
Thanks for your help.


I've met some software testers here working for an Australian software testing house.


Lol. Software testers from Australia? :???: I thought testers were even low skill than code monkeys. Testing jobs are also the 1st ones that are getting kicked out to India at the moment.


I wouldn't call testing lower skill but it definitely is more tedious and better off outsourced to people with more patience, at least in the eyes of diva developers.


Truth is, good QA is just as expensive and rare as good developers. Many companies consciously neglect their QA.

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Postby v4jr4 » Fri, 05 Oct 2012 7:14 pm

revhappy wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:
noskich wrote:Hey col311, I would be very interested to hear which Australian IT companies are regularly sending employees as expats to Singapore?
I have long-term plans of moving over there and expat package would definitely be the sweetest deal. So it would certainly help to work and build a profile in a company which is likely to offer it.
Thanks for your help.


I've met some software testers here working for an Australian software testing house.


Lol. Software testers from Australia? :???: I thought testers were even low skill than code monkeys. Testing jobs are also the 1st ones that are getting kicked out to India at the moment.


Not really. They must find the bug. It's hard to find a perfect application. A good QA knows how to smash a system. Plus, they will be the "frontline" if something left unnoticed hammers the system (especially after go-live) :P
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Postby noskich » Sat, 06 Oct 2012 7:59 am

Hmm, I`m in project management. Any hope for either PM delivery or support (PMO) to be expatriated from Oz to Singapore?

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Postby movingtospore » Sun, 07 Oct 2012 11:59 am

Schools are a major expense and a major issue for expats here. You need to budget 30K year/per kid to cover tuition, yearly applications fees, etc etc. And, the International Schools seem to like to put the fees up a LOT every year. Since I've been here (3 years) our fees have increased by 25%.

You can go to local schools, but that also is not easy as a foreigner. If you are not a PR - and you will not be granted PR as a newbie - it is very difficult to get a place in local schools. So - to me this, and health insurance, are minimums for your employer. They may not want to pay it as a separate allowance but if they are shipping you out here they should be willing to cover at least some of your school fees. Otherwise, like some you could end up in the position where you're home schooling, or spending all of your disposable income on school fees.

This is one trend that absolutely drives me nuts here.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Sun, 07 Oct 2012 2:55 pm

noskich wrote:Hmm, I`m in project management. Any hope for either PM delivery or support (PMO) to be expatriated from Oz to Singapore?


Not much. PM here is not really as skilled or valued as it should be in my limited experience.
Now I'm called PNGMK

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Postby offshoreoildude » Sun, 07 Oct 2012 2:58 pm

movingtospore wrote:Schools are a major expense and a major issue for expats here. You need to budget 30K year/per kid to cover tuition, yearly applications fees, etc etc. And, the International Schools seem to like to put the fees up a LOT every year. Since I've been here (3 years) our fees have increased by 25%.

You can go to local schools, but that also is not easy as a foreigner. If you are not a PR - and you will not be granted PR as a newbie - it is very difficult to get a place in local schools. So - to me this, and health insurance, are minimums for your employer. They may not want to pay it as a separate allowance but if they are shipping you out here they should be willing to cover at least some of your school fees. Otherwise, like some you could end up in the position where you're home schooling, or spending all of your disposable income on school fees.

This is one trend that absolutely drives me nuts here.


It's a problem everywhere for expats - it's no better from PNG to Thailand to China to India. There are no 'cheap' expat schools and those that are - well you don't want your kids going there.
Now I'm called PNGMK

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Postby noskich » Mon, 08 Oct 2012 9:11 am

offshoreoildude wrote:
noskich wrote:Hmm, I`m in project management. Any hope for either PM delivery or support (PMO) to be expatriated from Oz to Singapore?


Not much. PM here is not really as skilled or valued as it should be in my limited experience.


:( Well, I guess the company offering the expat package would perceive the need from the Australian or MNC perspective and not the Singaporean one?

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Postby col311 » Thu, 11 Oct 2012 11:24 am

noskich wrote:Hey col311, I would be very interested to hear which Australian IT companies are regularly sending employees as expats to Singapore?
I have long-term plans of moving over there and expat package would definitely be the sweetest deal. So it would certainly help to work and build a profile in a company which is likely to offer it.
Thanks for your help.


Sorry noskich, I do not know of any Australian IT companies that regularly send employees as expats to Singapore.. it's really opportunity based. I don't think any companies seek to do it, it just depends on what the situation might be. In my situation, I had previous skills in Asia. We were managing Asia from Australia & the new CEO thought it would be better if I was managing from Asia instead.

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Postby col311 » Thu, 11 Oct 2012 11:26 am

movingtospore wrote:Schools are a major expense and a major issue for expats here. You need to budget 30K year/per kid to cover tuition, yearly applications fees, etc etc. And, the International Schools seem to like to put the fees up a LOT every year. Since I've been here (3 years) our fees have increased by 25%.

You can go to local schools, but that also is not easy as a foreigner. If you are not a PR - and you will not be granted PR as a newbie - it is very difficult to get a place in local schools. So - to me this, and health insurance, are minimums for your employer. They may not want to pay it as a separate allowance but if they are shipping you out here they should be willing to cover at least some of your school fees. Otherwise, like some you could end up in the position where you're home schooling, or spending all of your disposable income on school fees.

This is one trend that absolutely drives me nuts here.


Thanks. I agree! Ridiculously high fees.. makes me want to look into starting an independent school in Singapore .. sounds like a lucrative set up!

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Postby colio » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 9:40 am

Just thought I'd update all interested in this subject.. especially if it will help others who are negotiating packages. So after much to'ing & fro'ing with the company on exact details of my contract, I have been able to negotiate some good inclusions:

- Full cost of relocating personal items including packing from our home & unpacking in Singapore with up to 40 foot container, all incidentals covered including comprehensive insurance
- Serviced Apartment in Singapore up to 8 weeks or earlier if we find a place to live
- Hotel in Sydney for up to 1 week whilst we clean our existing house & take care of all bits & pieces we need to do
- Flights for the family: wife & 2 kids
- Payment of application & infrastructure fee for International School (approx $11k)
- No interest loan for school fees, pay back to the company in 12 monthly installments taken out of pay
- Car rental in Singapore until I find my own car to purchase (maximum 8 weeks).
- $3000 p.a to cover family medical costs
- Holidays based on Australian law (so I get 20 days annual leave instead of whatever Singapore is offering these days).

All in all I'm pretty happy, plus a pretty good increase in my overall package.

So whilst the huge expat packages over yesteryear have gone, companies do seem pretty willing to provide some good expat packages still. And I'm not an investment banker or even work in finance.

If you are negotiating your expat package with your company now, good luck. Feel free to use my package as ideas for you..

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 11:43 am

Congrats. Just curious, how much of a monetary value would you assign to all these benefits combined? And what is it in terms of ratio of your overall package, that would give us an idea of what it's really worth.

Also wanted to mention, 24 days of annual leave is pretty standard in Singapore especially in MNCS banks. We also have 6 days of child care leave and 12 days of sick leave. :)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 11:48 am

Wd40, you might want to change you statement a wee bit. 24 days of annual leave is pretty standard in Singapore ONLY in the financial sector. And, it's 6 days of Child care leave and 14 days of sick leave. Those two are mandated by Singapore law. Average annual leave in Singapore across the board is around 10 days to start. The MOM states the minimum is only 7 days in the first year with an additional day per year of service up to 14 days per year (by law). If a company wants to give more that that, not a problem. But they have to give at least that much.

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Postby Wd40 » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 11:59 am

Sorry, my bad. Yeah i intended to say its standard in MNCs but i didnt know its only in financial sector. I would imagine its also in other major service industry MNCs like my friend who works in Mercer. They have excellent benefits too. So who is left out then manufacturing? Oil and gas and shipping?

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Postby Cath C » Sat, 15 Dec 2012 1:14 pm

colio wrote:
So whilst the huge expat packages over yesteryear have gone, companies do seem pretty willing to provide some good expat packages still.


Glad you negotiated and got a package you're happy with. Companies (MNC's especially) will often sweeten the deal if they really need to move talent internationally. I know one finance company that dosen't officially offer expat packages, but their employees are getting school fees, housing, cars etc etc.

For anyone moving, I'd recommend asking for all those things. You stand a good chance if the company wants you to move and there aren't many other people with your skills and experience that would also be willing.

From my own experience in HR with a MNC here, I was constantly amazed at some of the deals we did for expats coming here. One guy even managed to convince his boss that his rental allowance really needed to be increased because he couldn't find anywhere to live for $17K per month. :shock:


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