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Mr LKY - states that Singapore will continue with migration

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offshoreoildude
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Mr LKY - states that Singapore will continue with migration

Postby offshoreoildude » Sun, 30 Sep 2012 11:23 am

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-2 ... -says.html

There's going to be a few locals unhappy with this.

Foreigners and permanent residents make up more than a third of the island’s 5.2 million population, and of the 122,600 jobs created in Singapore last year, about 70 percent went to workers from overseas.
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Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 30 Sep 2012 12:13 pm

They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

What's the alternative? Stop incoming migration would cut off their own noses at two ends of the spectrum: locals would need to clear their own trays, do their own landscaping, and construction; MNCs would wind down operations and move them elsewhere, killing thousands and thousands of the better paying jobs locals all want.

If the later happened especially, do you think those same MNCs would come back when the locals realize their error in 6-12 years and loosen restrictions again? Hell no. My MNC is already losing EP holders, and encouraging us to go for PR asap. They're also expanding heavily into China for the 'brain' jobs, not just manufacturing. A lot of those same positions are currently here, but I suspect will slowly be shifted North and phased out here. And if you know where I work, we're not hurting for profit by any means, so this isn't really cost-cutting.

I'm sure the cleaners and laborers would come back, but Singapore might not be able to afford them at that point.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Sun, 30 Sep 2012 12:21 pm

One advantage of having such a large slice of your population as non citizens, is that it is damn easy to reduce your work force (and hence push up employment of your locals) with a single pen stroke when a recession hits.
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Postby zzm9980 » Sun, 30 Sep 2012 12:35 pm

offshoreoildude wrote:One advantage of having such a large slice of your population as non citizens, is that it is damn easy to reduce your work force (and hence push up employment of your locals) with a single pen stroke when a recession hits.


Assuming all jobs and all candidates are equal, sure. Too bad that isn't the case.

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Re: Mr LKY - states that Singapore will continue with migra

Postby revhappy » Sun, 30 Sep 2012 2:27 pm

Most of the jobs created here dont belong to Singapore. For example the back office IT of most banks. These jobs dont have to be here, since the business they are supporting is all US or Europe. The back office jobs can be done in India or any other place. The people doing these jobs are also not Singaporeans.
Last edited by revhappy on Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mr LKY - states that Singapore will continue with migra

Postby v4jr4 » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 12:01 am

offshoreoildude wrote:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-26/singapore-will-take-in-foreigners-at-comfortable-pace-lee-says.html

There's going to be a few locals unhappy with this.

Foreigners and permanent residents make up more than a third of the island’s 5.2 million population, and of the 122,600 jobs created in Singapore last year, about 70 percent went to workers from overseas.


Well, from the recent "incidents", they only "slice" the "brain-with-minimum-salary". Unless SCs can replace those "brains", vicious cycle will go on and on.
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Re: Mr LKY - states that Singapore will continue with migra

Postby revhappy » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 12:39 am

..
Last edited by revhappy on Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mr LKY - states that Singapore will continue with migra

Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 9:07 am

offshoreoildude wrote:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-26/singapore-will-take-in-foreigners-at-comfortable-pace-lee-says.html

There's going to be a few locals unhappy with this.

Foreigners and permanent residents make up more than a third of the island’s 5.2 million population, and of the 122,600 jobs created in Singapore last year, about 70 percent went to workers from overseas.


One other thought on the 122,600 jobs added: How many qualified Singaporeans actually entered the work-force last year? Is this sensational statistic due to foreigners "stealing" jobs and pushing uncles to taxis and aunties to tray clearing? Or is it due to inability of Singaporeans to reproduce at a sufficient rate?

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Re: Mr LKY - states that Singapore will continue with migra

Postby v4jr4 » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:10 am

revhappy wrote:Most of the jobs created here dont belong to Singapore. For example the back office IT of most banks. These jobs dont have to be here, since the business they are supporting is all US or Europe. The back office jobs can be done in India or any other place. The people doing these jobs are also not Singaporeans.


Problem is, some of the local software houses shout as well due to the "slicing". It's not like they don't want to recruit SCs, but with the low salary, it's unlikely SCs want to join.
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Re: Mr LKY - states that Singapore will continue with migra

Postby revhappy » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:52 am

..
Last edited by revhappy on Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby v4jr4 » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 11:06 am

Then, is it valid for me to say that the available jobs are enough for everyone? But whether it's valid or not, the bigger question is, why PMETs become the first target?
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Postby revhappy » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 11:15 am

v4jr4 wrote:Then, is it valid for me to say that the available jobs are enough for everyone? But whether it's valid or not, the bigger question is, why PMETs become the first target?


That is because PMET jobs are easily disposable compared to say construction jobs, they need workers to build the the up coming MRT lines so they cant say no to construction workers. PMETs roles that are at the low end are currently targeted, because at most these will wind up small s/w shops and the big players who generate the bulk of the taxes will still not have a problem to get in people.

The PMETs are the people who cause the biggest eye sore as they travel in MRTs in comparison to workers who are ferried in lorries.

PMETs also stay in HDBs and cause constant frictions with the locals compared to workers who stay in dormitories.

So reducing few PMETs and the dependants of most other PMETs, will have the least impact on the economy and yet have the maximum effect in pleasing the locals ;)
Last edited by revhappy on Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 11:44 am

Good post revhappy. And just about spot on.

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Postby v4jr4 » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 11:54 am

revhappy wrote:
v4jr4 wrote:Then, is it valid for me to say that the available jobs are enough for everyone? But whether it's valid or not, the bigger question is, why PMETs become the first target?


That is because PMET jobs are easily disposable compared to say construction jobs, they need workers to build the the up coming MRT lines so they cant say no to construction workers. PMETs roles that are at the low end are currently targeted, because at most these will wind up small s/w shops and the big players who generate the bulk of the taxes will still not have a problem to get in people.

The PMETs are the people who cause the biggest eye sore as they travel in MRTs in comparison to workers who are ferried in lorries.

PMETs also stay in HDBs and cause constant frictions with the locals compared to workers who stay in dormitories.

So reducing few PMETs and the dependants of most other PMETs, will have the least impact on the economy and yet have the maximum effect in pleasing the locals ;)


If that's the reason, I'll do a halfhearted face palm. To replace a senior staff with a new guy is not an easy task, but from management pov (based on my experience), it's not a big deal. I still have my doubts about making FT-PMETs as the main villain, but I'll leave it as it is :P
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Postby Mi Amigo » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 1:04 pm

Interesting discussion. And I think zzm hit the nail on the head with his observation that the government is "damned if they do and damned if they don't."

Whatever you may think of the education system here (and its 'results' in the widest sense), one thing that seems clear to me is that most parents push their children very hard to perform well at school / college / university. The unwritten deal seems to be that if you study hard, get the top grades and a good degree, masters, etc., then you will be 'entitled' to a nice job, nice apartment, BMW, etc. So in the circumstances it's hard to 'blame' the young people emerging from the education system from having certain expectations of that kind. The problem of course is that after going through that process, no-one wants to take a low-paid and/or 'low status' job if they can avoid it. Hence the need to bring in the 'foreigners' to fill the gaps.

IMO Singaporeans should be grateful to those who come in and peform the tasks that they don't want to do (or are not capable of doing). By so doing they (we) are keeping the economy going. But of course that perspective is easier to take from outside of the group, i.e. from our (expat) standpoint.
Last edited by Mi Amigo on Mon, 01 Oct 2012 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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