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Running a private Montessori playgroup from home

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HunyBee
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Running a private Montessori playgroup from home

Postby HunyBee » Thu, 27 Sep 2012 7:04 pm

I need to know if I would be able to run a small Montessori playgroup and pre-school from my condo. I do not own the condo, I am just renting.

Is there specific business rights/zoning/legal requirements I need to know about?

I would appreciate any help or advice anyone has for me.

teck21
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Postby teck21 » Thu, 27 Sep 2012 8:10 pm

Absolutely no way you can run such an outfit from a condo unit. URA regulations do not permit it.

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Postby HunyBee » Thu, 27 Sep 2012 8:34 pm

Thanks :)

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Strong Eagle
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Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 27 Sep 2012 9:37 pm

Take forum advice with a grain of salt. Ask teck21 for citations supporting his assertion.

Most condos do not permit business activities... and most condos have private rules, outside the realm of the URA.

Free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

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Postby teck21 » Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:11 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:Take forum advice with a grain of salt. Ask teck21 for citations supporting his assertion.


Fair enough. :)

Permitted under Home Office Scheme (that's what they call it, although I do presume it means home business-of-some-sort scheme):

Accountancy services
Architectural services
Consultancy services (business, engineering, IT, management or education)
Design/Advertising services
Insurance/Financial planning services
Real estate agencies
Technology based and knowledge intensive businesses
Transportation services
Trading office

Not permitted:
Beauty, hair dressing or massage therapy services
Car trading business
Card reading/palm reading or fortune telling in any form
Catering/restaurants
Clinics and pharmacies (e.g. dental, medical, veterinary)
Commercial school (e.g. dance, music, language, tuition centre)
Courier business
Classes on dress-making and embroidery
Employment agency
Funeral chapels or homes
Maid agency
Mausoleums
Manufacturing, preparation or processing of any products and goods
Money lending businesses
Opticians
Repair activities (e.g. household appliances, electrical products, footwear, etc.)
Sales/marketing that involves conducting seminars and talks for large number of customers
Shops and any form of retail activity, including pet shops

Terms and conditions of scheme found here:
http://edanet.ura.gov.sg/dcd/homeoffice ... /HOtnc.jsp, key point being

Owners must take every care to ensure that the activities of their business do not cause disturbance to the neighbours or the residential neighbourhood. As such, the businesses allowed must satisfy the performance criteria.


Performance criteria here (not sure what the distinction between this and the T&C are really):
http://edanet.ura.gov.sg/dcd/homeoffice ... iteria.jsp

Key point here The business activities must not introduce extraneous human or vehicular traffic to the surrounding neighborhood.

Hmm, come to think of it, nothing in the URA guidelines expressly says 'no childcare type' business, but it still looks highly unlikely given their conditions under which one can operate a business from home.

Maybe you want to call them up, and possibly still not really get an answer in the end!

And somewhere in there is: consent of landlord is absolutely required. This one might well be the deal breaker even if URA says okay.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:24 am

Which is interesting. I had my Headhunting company based in my HDB flat complete with approval letter from HDB and license from MOM. In fact, I was the first Recruitment company licensed by MOM to operate from an HDB flat with full and complete permission (the key was the fact that it was a one man operation and there would be no walk in traffic nor signage. As I was purely a headhunter, I didn't depend on walk-in traffic and as I work mostly offshore engineering projects most of my business was international anyway. But I was licensed to do business from an HDB Flat with permission given by HDB.

Of course that was 7 years ago, so they may have changed that now.....

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Postby offshoreoildude » Fri, 28 Sep 2012 9:16 am

You might jump through all the loopholes but you only need one old grouch like myself to complain to his residents committee or management committee and you'll be shut down. And yes, I would do it. I shut down the private swimming lessons at our condo pool this way when the instructor had the balls to ask the guard to tell me to move out of the way in the pool - it's MY bloody condo - not his is and will be always my attitude. I'd do the same with you - I didn't buy a condo to have a thousand screaming brats and their godawful useless maids and even worse mothers clogging up MY carpark with their lousy driving and overwhelming the common facilities.

Get the drift?

PS - if the swimming lessons had ONLY been for my neighbors kids and the Montessori garbage was ONLY for my neighbors kids I would not complain. But you want to invite strangers in to use common shared property - that's the issue.

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Postby the lynx » Fri, 28 Sep 2012 9:33 am

offshoreoildude wrote:You might jump through all the loopholes but you only need one old grouch like myself to complain to his residents committee or management committee and you'll be shut down. And yes, I would do it. I shut down the private swimming lessons at our condo pool this way when the instructor had the balls to ask the guard to tell me to move out of the way in the pool - it's MY bloody condo - not his is and will be always my attitude. I'd do the same with you - I didn't buy a condo to have a thousand screaming brats and their godawful useless maids and even worse mothers clogging up MY carpark with their lousy driving and overwhelming the common facilities.

Get the drift?

PS - if the swimming lessons had ONLY been for my neighbors kids and the Montessori garbage was ONLY for my neighbors kids I would not complain. But you want to invite strangers in to use common shared property - that's the issue.


That is something interesting.

I didn't know that private swimming instructors in condos are allowed to bring in outsiders as students...

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Postby offshoreoildude » Fri, 28 Sep 2012 9:45 am

the lynx wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:You might jump through all the loopholes but you only need one old grouch like myself to complain to his residents committee or management committee and you'll be shut down. And yes, I would do it. I shut down the private swimming lessons at our condo pool this way when the instructor had the balls to ask the guard to tell me to move out of the way in the pool - it's MY bloody condo - not his is and will be always my attitude. I'd do the same with you - I didn't buy a condo to have a thousand screaming brats and their godawful useless maids and even worse mothers clogging up MY carpark with their lousy driving and overwhelming the common facilities.

Get the drift?

PS - if the swimming lessons had ONLY been for my neighbors kids and the Montessori garbage was ONLY for my neighbors kids I would not complain. But you want to invite strangers in to use common shared property - that's the issue.


That is something interesting.

I didn't know that private swimming instructors in condos are allowed to bring in outsiders as students...


Depends on the condo residents approval and management committee agreement AFAIK - but you only need one indictment to have it shut down. The instructor tried to claim that the outside students were relatives of condo residents but it was a bogus claim easily disproved. I also suspect the condo insurers would not pay out on any claims in such a case if someone drowned or was hurt.
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Postby HunyBee » Fri, 28 Sep 2012 9:35 pm

offshoreoildude wrote:You might jump through all the loopholes but you only need one old grouch like myself to complain to his residents committee or management committee and you'll be shut down. And yes, I would do it. I shut down the private swimming lessons at our condo pool this way when the instructor had the balls to ask the guard to tell me to move out of the way in the pool - it's MY bloody condo - not his is and will be always my attitude. I'd do the same with you - I didn't buy a condo to have a thousand screaming brats and their godawful useless maids and even worse mothers clogging up MY carpark with their lousy driving and overwhelming the common facilities.

Get the drift?

PS - if the swimming lessons had ONLY been for my neighbors kids and the Montessori garbage was ONLY for my neighbors kids I would note complain. But you want to invite strangers in to use common shared property - that's the issue.
To the grumpy old man - The plan is to only offer the classes to children in the condo complex. No outsiders allowed. I agree with your statements, but your god awful attitude is unnecessary. Don't jump to conclusions before you have all the information. There is no need to be rude.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Fri, 28 Sep 2012 9:37 pm

HunyBee wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:You might jump through all the loopholes but you only need one old grouch like myself to complain to his residents committee or management committee and you'll be shut down. And yes, I would do it. I shut down the private swimming lessons at our condo pool this way when the instructor had the balls to ask the guard to tell me to move out of the way in the pool - it's MY bloody condo - not his is and will be always my attitude. I'd do the same with you - I didn't buy a condo to have a thousand screaming brats and their godawful useless maids and even worse mothers clogging up MY carpark with their lousy driving and overwhelming the common facilities.

Get the drift?

PS - if the swimming lessons had ONLY been for my neighbors kids and the Montessori garbage was ONLY for my neighbors kids I would note complain. But you want to invite strangers in to use common shared property - that's the issue.
To the grumpy old man - The plan is to only offer the classes to children in the condo complex. No outsiders allowed. I agree with your statements, but your god awful attitude is unnecessary. Don't jump to conclusions before you have all the information. There is no need to be rude.


That wasn't clear in your original post. I'm not being any more rude than some of the other condo residents will be! I suspect you'll face backlash from them unless you work very closely with them - your other issue will be if you're making money at this - the management committee will want a slice of the cake.
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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:01 pm

HunyBee wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:You might jump through all the loopholes but you only need one old grouch like myself to complain to his residents committee or management committee and you'll be shut down. And yes, I would do it. I shut down the private swimming lessons at our condo pool this way when the instructor had the balls to ask the guard to tell me to move out of the way in the pool - it's MY bloody condo - not his is and will be always my attitude. I'd do the same with you - I didn't buy a condo to have a thousand screaming brats and their godawful useless maids and even worse mothers clogging up MY carpark with their lousy driving and overwhelming the common facilities.

Get the drift?

PS - if the swimming lessons had ONLY been for my neighbors kids and the Montessori garbage was ONLY for my neighbors kids I would note complain. But you want to invite strangers in to use common shared property - that's the issue.
To the grumpy old man - The plan is to only offer the classes to children in the condo complex. No outsiders allowed. I agree with your statements, but your god awful attitude is unnecessary. Don't jump to conclusions before you have all the information. There is no need to be rude.


Hey... OSOD is playing nicer than average... and I agree with him. You want to make money by turning your home into a business full of kids. I'd sure as hell object if you are in the flat next to me, you compromise the parking, or you make a lot of noise. I'd vote "no"... an apartment is not a suitable location for a "Montessori playgroup".

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Postby offshoreoildude » Sat, 29 Sep 2012 9:59 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
HunyBee wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:You might jump through all the loopholes but you only need one old grouch like myself to complain to his residents committee or management committee and you'll be shut down. And yes, I would do it. I shut down the private swimming lessons at our condo pool this way when the instructor had the balls to ask the guard to tell me to move out of the way in the pool - it's MY bloody condo - not his is and will be always my attitude. I'd do the same with you - I didn't buy a condo to have a thousand screaming brats and their godawful useless maids and even worse mothers clogging up MY carpark with their lousy driving and overwhelming the common facilities.

Get the drift?

PS - if the swimming lessons had ONLY been for my neighbors kids and the Montessori garbage was ONLY for my neighbors kids I would note complain. But you want to invite strangers in to use common shared property - that's the issue.
To the grumpy old man - The plan is to only offer the classes to children in the condo complex. No outsiders allowed. I agree with your statements, but your god awful attitude is unnecessary. Don't jump to conclusions before you have all the information. There is no need to be rude.


Hey... OSOD is playing nicer than average... and I agree with him. You want to make money by turning your home into a business full of kids. I'd sure as hell object if you are in the flat next to me, you compromise the parking, or you make a lot of noise. I'd vote "no"... an apartment is not a suitable location for a "Montessori playgroup".


Generally business of all types is heavily discouraged in condos by many vested parties, from your neighbors to the URA to the MC - this is in part because most condo's are designed as residences only and you never actually really own the 'rights' to use it as you will in Singapore. The fact that she is leasing gives her no leeway at all with the MC either. She 'might' get away with it on the quiet but remember gatherings of 5 people or more without a permit are illegal in Singapore! (Is it 5 or more? Can't remember).
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Postby taxico » Sat, 29 Sep 2012 5:03 pm

there's a "legal" scheme (???) where a playgroup (or something like a mini kindergarten) can be organized in a residential facility for 4, 5, 6 (9? i don't remember) or so tikes.

so long as you don't go past that number (whatever it is), you should be fine.

i'm sorry i can't give you more details. google is your friend. i know of several singapore moms who do this until all their kids have grown beyond 6 or 7 years old. but none of them live in condos...

as for neighbors complaining... i dare say if you don't inconvenience people and/or break the law, it should be fine.

p/s: the complaining thing is MY opinion...

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Postby offshoreoildude » Sat, 29 Sep 2012 5:21 pm

Pro-tip: rent a landed property next time.
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