Landlord furniture issue

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castie
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Post by castie » Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:18 am

TweedleDum wrote:we've had similar issues with both furniture and agents, also having just moved here. in the end the landlords agent told us it was illegal to contact her directly with issues about the apartment (after telling us we had 30 days to bring up any issues and then magically disappearing for two weeks) and keeps saying "just remove the damaged item from the tenancy agreement". at this point the only "furnishings" left in our furnished apartment are a tv that usually works and a dining room table. the rest has been removed from the tenancy agreement and binned or put in the bomb shelter room. i guess chalk it up to being new here, but this is one of the most negative landlord experiences i've ever had; and i used to rent in egypt....
My company handles alot of things including apartments in US,UK,Aus,Jordan,JP and even Russia!

The property manager has said this is the worst she has seen.

MY own agent said I should of highlighted that furniture needed to support an above average weight. THIS PERSON HAS MET ME!!!!

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sundaymorningstaple
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 21 Sep 2012 6:44 am

Welcome to Singapore. You will learn the term rather sooner than later about the majority of Singaporeans. "Blur like Sotong" Google it. Also their famous total lack of "Spatial Awareness" about their surroundings.
:(
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by x9200 » Fri, 21 Sep 2012 7:17 am

castie wrote:he property manager has said this is the worst she has seen.

MY own agent said I should of highlighted that furniture needed to support an above average weight. THIS PERSON HAS MET ME!!!!
Common sense is even weaker than ethics among many people around so don't be surprised.

If you are really determined to do something about this take it to SCT. I think you may have a decent chance if your rental is sufficiently high (say 4-5k for a flat of < 130sm). Is the price for renting the furniture mentioned in TA or just a lump sum?
If you p* off with your agent and you think (s)he does not do the job properly report her or him to CEA.

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Post by ScoobyDoes » Fri, 21 Sep 2012 9:45 am

TweedleDum wrote:in the end the landlords agent told us it was illegal to contact her directly with issues about the apartment

Well, there is today's piece of horse manure for fertiliser.
Last edited by ScoobyDoes on Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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castie
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Post by castie » Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:20 am

x9200 wrote:
castie wrote:he property manager has said this is the worst she has seen.

MY own agent said I should of highlighted that furniture needed to support an above average weight. THIS PERSON HAS MET ME!!!!
Common sense is even weaker than ethics among many people around so don't be surprised.

If you are really determined to do something about this take it to SCT. I think you may have a decent chance if your rental is sufficiently high (say 4-5k for a flat of < 130sm). Is the price for renting the furniture mentioned in TA or just a lump sum?
If you p* off with your agent and you think (s)he does not do the job properly report her or him to CEA.
4.5k SGD with 1.8k SGD down as furniture on the TA.

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Post by x9200 » Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:52 pm

Oh, that's nice. 1.8k for the rental of some crappy furniture. I would give it a try. There is also a good chance you will get what you want as soon as they realize you are not bluffing. Suing your LL to SCT will cost you less than $50 plus a bit of your time plus he will not like you any longer and you may have problems with your deposit at the end of your contract (what is likely to be the case anyway). You may also suggest to your agent that as he supposed to supervise the deal he should have never agreed for such cheap furniture to be rented to you for such price (again a complaint to CEA).

Additional question is whether you can involve or at least use IRAS to convince the LL to buy you something more decent. If I am not mistaken the rental of the furniture is put that high to get some tax discount/reduction. This sounds like cheating.

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Post by winnoe » Fri, 21 Sep 2012 1:17 pm

I'm Singaporean, but I have to rent as well because of some extraneous reasons I won't go into.

My advice to people intending to rent, is always assume your LL is a money-grubbing POS @sshole, and work around that assumption.

Locals tend to shy away from the blatant scare-tactics and made-up laws with other locals, but I have heard many stories from my expatriate colleagues who have encountered LL's that were the sons and daughters of Satan.

Now, about your Agent.
Unfortunately, because the Agent thinks since you are not local, if you get frustrated enough, you will just never use his/her services again, which is fine by them since they treat you as a one-off commission.

If you have his/her name card and license number, you can report him/her to the company AND the authorities.

Since 2011, property agents now need proper licenses, so now instead of being mercenary rogues, they are now Government approved rogues.

Find out which agency he/she works for. ERA? DWG? OrangeTee? Each of those companies have a website where you can report bad agents.
Their namecard has their Agent License number and Company registration number.
If that does work, report them to CEA (Council for Estate Agencies). It is a statutary board that regulates agents.
The complaint form can be found here : http://www.cea.gov.sg/cea/content/resou ... tForm.html

You can tell the agent that unless he responds to your requests, you will file a complaint with CEA. Likely CEA will not suspend their license (meaning they can no longer work) but often the threat of suspension will spur them into action.

Now.... about your POS LL
You have a good case, because the TA includes the rental of furniture.
Now legally, it is always a case of "reasonable" use and wear and tear. It is not able to be quantified, but surely, 5 days is not reasonable by any means.
By the TA, it is my personal belief (which I am not sure has any basis in law) that the LL should provide for you what he had provided already, OR reduce the rental.

Example, you accepted the rental or premises at $2700/month and furniture at $1800/month. This $1800 is supposed to include whatever you got in there, no more no less.

So for example, you can't ask for curtains to be in the kitchen if the kitchen had none to begin with. You SHOULD get the chairs/bed replaced though.


Luckily for me, when I rented, the agent had good sense to tell me to put down in writing on the TA, what the rental covers.

I had a list of 30-40 items that were covered under the TA as rental. When the hall fan and TV died (same week), I had the furniture rental portion of my TA reduced by $100/month, and got an official addendum to my TA to reflect the new lower rental.
~~ I have nothing witty or interesting to add here ~~

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Post by nutnut » Fri, 21 Sep 2012 3:29 pm

Great tips mate, I will bear these in mind for me in future!

Mods, can we sticky some fo this information for rogue Agents/LLs? I think a master thread would be beneficial, this information rarely changes!
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castie
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Post by castie » Fri, 21 Sep 2012 3:39 pm

Can someone clarify the role of the agent after the agreement actually?

I was told by someone that they think the agent does not have to engage for us and we only paid the commission for the agreement getting made.

This sound true?

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Post by x9200 » Fri, 21 Sep 2012 6:18 pm

SCHEDULE 2 DUTIES OF ESTATE AGENT
The Estate Agent shall:
(a) provide reasonable assistance and advice to the Tenant throughout the process of lease of the property.
(b) represent the Tenant in negotiations with any prospective Landlord in accordance with his instructions.
(c) promptly forward to the Tenant all offers, proposals or expressions of interest from potential Landlords or their agents.
(d) advance the Tenant’s interest unaffected by any interest of the Estate Agent, Salesperson or any other person.
(e) assist the Tenant to enter into a binding lease with the Landlord and reasonably explain to the Tenant all relevant forms and documents. However, if the Estate Agent is in doubt on any matter, he shall state his doubt and advise the Tenant to seek advice from appropriate professionals.
(f) comply with all reasonable instructions and requests of the Tenant in relation to the transaction.

taken for CEA web pages
IMO It falls in your case under (f)

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Post by offshoreoildude » Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:45 am

Strong Eagle wrote:Ya know, I really have a lot of sympathy for the OP. This is not about how much somebody weighs or what size they are. This is, once again, a demonstration of the reprehensible behavior and lack of ethics/integrity that far too many Singaporeans possess.

Come on y'all... tell me with a straight face that a $99 table and chairs from Ikea constitutes decent furniture. I don't care if you weigh 250 pounds... a bed that breaks with first use is shit. People buy this cheap shit when they are furnishing their first flat on a $2K pay check... it's most definitely not what goes into a $6K and up condo.

What we have here is a case of a new expat, negotiating in good faith, only to discover that the landlord is an asshole... no intention of treating the tenant fairly, every intention of screwing over as much as possible to maximize profit.

I've learned to NEVER trust that a deal will be carried through as promised... one must always see the final goods... otherwise, expect to be ripped off.

OP... take him to the small claims tribunal... at least threaten to do so. A scheisskopf like your landlord won't react to anything except the threat of the law.

And... if you think it's otherwise... you've been here too long.
+1

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Post by offshoreoildude » Sat, 22 Sep 2012 12:05 pm

winnoe wrote:I'm Singaporean, but I have to rent as well because of some extraneous reasons I won't go into.

My advice to people intending to rent, is always assume your LL is a money-grubbing POS @sshole, and work around that assumption.
:D :D

Assume also;

1. You'll always be at risk of losing your bond. The way to do this varies but I found a unique way - for my last tenancy I was renovating a place to move in - I negotiated a 3 month extension - the agent quite rightly returned most of the bond (it had been two months for a two year lease) and all I had to worry about was getting back two weeks rent which I did with point 2 and 3.
2. You'll need to have a contractor on the spot to do repairs at the last minute when you move out or risk paying massively inflated charges for bogus repairs.
3. Be prepared to be extremely aggressive with the agent - by nature I'm very passive but I've had to go nose to nose with a property agent to get my bond back - don't swear (an offense) and don't commit a seizable offense but the locals can be intimidated by language and 'fierceness' (aka body language).

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