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Dual citizenship issue

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kev0
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Dual citizenship issue

Postby kev0 » Thu, 13 Sep 2012 6:19 pm

Hi all,
I am currently holding dual citizenship for both Australia and SIngapore. For the past two years I have been serving NS in Singapore and now that I have completed my time, I have received a letter asking me to choose between either Singapore or Australian citizenship as dual citizenship is not allowed past the age of 21.

My dilemma is this, my immediate family is currently living in Australia, and I also plan to continue further studies at a university there. However, as I was born in Singapore, I still have many emotional and family ties remaining in Singapore, and may want to live and work here in the future. On top of that, I have served 2 years in the army and don't want it to be a waste.

Most of the letter i received from ICA is straightforward enough but the part about renouncing my Singapore citizenship is slightly confusing. It goes like this " However, if you wish to remain as a Australian citizen, you can consider renouncing Singapore citizenship voluntarily."

I want to ask,
1. If there is any possible way for me to keep BOTH my citizenship. Maybe writing a letter to ICA explaining my situation?
2. If i choose NOT to renounce Singapore citizenship 'voluntarily', is it considered a crime, will there be penalties in the future.
3. Is there a fixed deadline in which Singapore will forcefully renounce my citizenship.

Any help anyone can provide me will be appreciated
Thanks

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 13 Sep 2012 9:00 pm

kev0 wrote:Hi all,
I am currently holding dual citizenship for both Australia and SIngapore. For the past two years I have been serving NS in Singapore and now that I have completed my time, I have received a letter asking me to choose between either Singapore or Australian citizenship as dual citizenship is not allowed past the age of 21.

My dilemma is this, my immediate family is currently living in Australia, and I also plan to continue further studies at a university there. However, as I was born in Singapore, I still have many emotional and family ties remaining in Singapore, and may want to live and work here in the future. On top of that, I have served 2 years in the army and don't want it to be a waste.

Most of the letter i received from ICA is straightforward enough but the part about renouncing my Singapore citizenship is slightly confusing. It goes like this " However, if you wish to remain as a Australian citizen, you can consider renouncing Singapore citizenship voluntarily."

I want to ask,
1. If there is any possible way for me to keep BOTH my citizenship. Maybe writing a letter to ICA explaining my situation?
2. If i choose NOT to renounce Singapore citizenship 'voluntarily', is it considered a crime, will there be penalties in the future.
3. Is there a fixed deadline in which Singapore will forcefully renounce my citizenship.

Any help anyone can provide me will be appreciated
Thanks


1) Nope.
2) Yep.
3) You won't be able to renew your red passport without renouncing the Australian citizenship, or lying. If you lie, you're liable to be arrested if caught.

Why not keep SC passport and get a PR in Australia? We have plenty of Masters degree holders that could tell you how it's done.

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Postby kev0 » Fri, 14 Sep 2012 5:22 pm

Thanks for the reply,
Im already an Australian citizen, I can change that to a PR?
How would i go about it?

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Postby zzm9980 » Fri, 14 Sep 2012 7:34 pm

kev0 wrote:Thanks for the reply,
Im already an Australian citizen, I can change that to a PR?
How would i go about it?


I'm not sure, but I assume you'd renounce the Australian citizenship then apply for PR on whatever basis you'd be allowed to. Having two parents that are Australian citizens would probably do it. I assume Australia is not vindictive towards former citizens like Singapore is ;)

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 15 Sep 2012 6:28 am

zzm9980 wrote:
kev0 wrote:Thanks for the reply,
Im already an Australian citizen, I can change that to a PR?
How would i go about it?


I'm not sure, but I assume you'd renounce the Australian citizenship then apply for PR on whatever basis you'd be allowed to. Having two parents that are Australian citizens would probably do it. I assume Australia is not vindictive towards former citizens like Singapore is ;)


That is not true.
Under section of the chap 93 of the Enlistment act upon serving NS you have to renounce either one of the two at the age of 21. You cannot keep both after that age.
If you failed to renounce, you will lose your SG citizenship by default
If you choose to renounce SG citizenship , you will not be able to apply SG PR but you can and allowed to stay here under SVP with caveat or look for a job under EP
If you choose not to respond and keep both it is a crime under the Constitution
Capisce?
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 15 Sep 2012 9:55 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:
kev0 wrote:Thanks for the reply,
Im already an Australian citizen, I can change that to a PR?
How would i go about it?


I'm not sure, but I assume you'd renounce the Australian citizenship then apply for PR on whatever basis you'd be allowed to. Having two parents that are Australian citizens would probably do it. I assume Australia is not vindictive towards former citizens like Singapore is ;)


That is not true.
Under section of the chap 93 of the Enlistment act upon serving NS you have to renounce either one of the two at the age of 21. You cannot keep both after that age.
If you failed to renounce, you will lose your SG citizenship by default
If you choose to renounce SG citizenship , you will not be able to apply SG PR but you can and allowed to stay here under SVP with caveat or look for a job under EP
If you choose not to respond and keep both it is a crime under the Constitution
Capisce?


Sorry, my post wasn't clear. I was suggesting it may be possible for him to renounce his Australian citizenship, and then apply for an Australian PR (or whatever its equivalent is. I thought I disclaimed that with saying I don't know if it's possible, but I did know renoucning SC and then getting SPR would not be possible.

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Re: Dual citizenship issue

Postby revhappy » Sat, 15 Sep 2012 1:16 pm

kev0 wrote:Hi all,
I am currently holding dual citizenship for both Australia and SIngapore. For the past two years I have been serving NS in Singapore and now that I have completed my time, I have received a letter asking me to choose between either Singapore or Australian citizenship as dual citizenship is not allowed past the age of 21.

My dilemma is this, my immediate family is currently living in Australia, and I also plan to continue further studies at a university there. However, as I was born in Singapore, I still have many emotional and family ties remaining in Singapore, and may want to live and work here in the future. On top of that, I have served 2 years in the army and don't want it to be a waste.

Most of the letter i received from ICA is straightforward enough but the part about renouncing my Singapore citizenship is slightly confusing. It goes like this " However, if you wish to remain as a Australian citizen, you can consider renouncing Singapore citizenship voluntarily."

I want to ask,
1. If there is any possible way for me to keep BOTH my citizenship. Maybe writing a letter to ICA explaining my situation?
2. If i choose NOT to renounce Singapore citizenship 'voluntarily', is it considered a crime, will there be penalties in the future.
3. Is there a fixed deadline in which Singapore will forcefully renounce my citizenship.

Any help anyone can provide me will be appreciated
Thanks


To me it looks like you have strong bonds in Singapore, than Australia. Australia is important for you only for the university and your parents. If thats true, keep your Singapore citizenship as its more difficult to obtain and very expensive to mess with.

Australia for you is just another developed country, except for the fact that your parents are there. You could keep your base as Singapore and keep your Singapore Citizenship. Go to Australia to do your degree, as a foreigner. After you finish your degree there, you can decide where you want to work. If you want to work in Singapore, its easy as you are a citizen. If you want to work in Australia, again, it shouldnt be very difficult considering you could apply for PR with points from your Australian degree and I also believe you get points for your parents being Australian.

This way you could kind of keep the cake and eat it too ;)

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Re: Dual citizenship issue

Postby sensei_ » Sat, 15 Sep 2012 2:01 pm

revhappy wrote:This way you could kind of keep the cake and eat it too ;)


having his cake and eating it would involving lying thru his teeth, keeping both passports, and having a local (australian subsidised) uni education.

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Re: Dual citizenship issue

Postby revhappy » Sat, 15 Sep 2012 2:05 pm

sensei_ wrote:
revhappy wrote:This way you could kind of keep the cake and eat it too ;)


having his cake and eating it would involving lying thru his teeth, keeping both passports, and having a local (australian subsidised) uni education.


Did you read my post? :???:

Didnt I make it clear? to keep Singapore Citizenship(implies give up AU citizenship). Again I have mentioned do the AU degree as a foreigner(implies give up AU citizenship) and if I implied to keep both citizenships, why would I ever bring up the AU PR thingy in the end? :roll:

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Re: Dual citizenship issue

Postby sensei_ » Sat, 15 Sep 2012 2:59 pm

revhappy wrote:Did you read my post? :???:

Didnt I make it clear? to keep Singapore Citizenship(implies give up AU citizenship). Again I have mentioned do the AU degree as a foreigner(implies give up AU citizenship) and if I implied to keep both citizenships, why would I ever bring up the AU PR thingy in the end? :roll:


yeah i did. but there is a better way of having the cake and eating it too (not the most legal way, but it is done very often by singaporeans who have little respect for the law). you know, just throwing thoughts out there.

have a beer, and take a chill pill. or maybe get out more and get some, might make you less tense.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 15 Sep 2012 3:52 pm

sensei_

Unfortunately, we don't like to suggest ways that are illegal on this site as we would eventually lose our credibility......obliquely or otherwise. :-|

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Postby Mad Scientist » Sat, 15 Sep 2012 4:02 pm

zzm9980 wrote:
Sorry, my post wasn't clear. I was suggesting it may be possible for him to renounce his Australian citizenship, and then apply for an Australian PR (or whatever its equivalent is. I thought I disclaimed that with saying I don't know if it's possible, but I did know renoucning SC and then getting SPR would not be possible.


This is the crux of the problem, If he renounce OZ Citizenship prior to serving NS and reclaim it back before the age of 27 then he is sweet as.
To regain PR after renounce OZ ain't gonna work as the reason to regain OZ or apply PR under OZ Immigration guideline is no longer available.
His application will be the same point system as other although his parent can sponsor but looking at the current situation in OZ , I dare not bet on it
If he study in OZ as foreign student , the cost will be an arm and a leg hence having the cake and eating eat ain't gonna happen.
OZ just set up Naoru Island as a detention center for boat people. There is huge uproar on those people whom skimmed on the system and the clamping down have caught a number of cheaters.
This is also happening in NZ.
I have came across a few cases myself on OP situation and the end result is not desirable
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Postby sensei_ » Sat, 15 Sep 2012 8:55 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:sensei_

Unfortunately, we don't like to suggest ways that are illegal on this site as we would eventually lose our credibility......obliquely or otherwise. :-|


It would be naive to think that the thought didnt cross his mind. I just finished with a thread in an australian forum where a m'sian wanted to keep both citizenship too. like singapore malaysia doesnt allow for dual, and the OP in the other forum wanted to have the best of both worlds by having a subsidised degree at the australian expense, but the freedom to go back to malaysia should it be required.

if i were the OP, i would be contacting an australian migration lawyer, who can advise on an ex citizen visa (or something to that!)

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Postby kev0 » Sat, 15 Sep 2012 9:24 pm

Thanks to all for replying,

So as I see it, I dont have much of a choice. Either I break the law and try to fly under the radar ( which is unlikely as Singapore already knows of my Australian citizenship) or give up my Australian citizenship, reapply for my university course and pay a bomb as a foreign student.

I just dont understand why Singapore cant allow dual citizenship in my case. I know part of the main reason is because Singapore is small and dont want citizens having dual allegiances but I think in my case it would actually be beneficial for Singapore in the long run, especially since Singapore is aiming to become more global. Theres always a big possibility of citizens who have emigrated to return to their home country and contribute via skills or experiences gained from their time overseas. Plus I have already served my country for 2 years so what does the country lose by letting me keep dual citizenship? It is as if Singapore doesn't value or trust its citizens enough to let them off the leash.

I know everyone is saying how hard it is to get a Singapore citizenship, but as it stands, I am favoring my Australian citizenship. I moved over when I was 11 so most of my "present" life is over there not to mention my immediate family and close friends.

Just a few more questions though, Mad scientist you mentioned that I will lose my citizenship by default. Im already over 21 and i've already been asked to respond by OCT 31st. Lets say i let Singapore decide for me rather then choosing to renounce my citizenship. Is there any penalties for that?

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Postby beppi » Sun, 16 Sep 2012 4:09 am

kev0 wrote:It is as if Singapore doesn't value or trust its citizens enough to let them off the leash.


Very well said!


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