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Doesn't Harry like Indonesians?

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Re: Doesn't Harry like Indonesians?

Postby the lynx » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 2:54 pm

IOP wrote:Fine, but why don't you build your own Singapore in that case instead of blaming small island? There is a good demand for smart people in this world these days and you will be able to find a good job if you are truly smart.


I think for this case, the construction sector will continue to need to hire foreign workers as labour... Doesn't need smart brains for this.

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Postby IOP » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 2:57 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:This will keep up until a number of MNC shift their operations to Malaysia and/or Thailand because of labour costs


One of the main niche of Singapore outsourcing work from one country to another (not always from company to company). This is manly because it hard to apply for a work permit for smart foreigners from other countries in US & UK. In case if MY or TH will adopt the same, it may be shifted.
Otherwise, local professional there won't be able to handle all types of work.
Also Singapore has top level infrastructure. Neither MY or TH has that.

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Re: Doesn't Harry like Indonesians?

Postby v4jr4 » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 3:04 pm

IOP wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:It's a damn shame not to be able to use them in Singapore.



My 5 cents: I like Singapore as it is now and I think the gov. does everything right.
Should we have more people from some country? May be okay, but I think those people who take decisions are not motivated by racial views, but practical. You think that you guys behind the fence are smart, ethical, educated. Fine, but why don't you build your own Singapore in that case instead of blaming small island? There is a good demand for smart people in this world these days and you will be able to find a good job if you are truly smart.


Valid point. Foreign workers can be sacked anytime, and it's not like they don't want to come back to their own country. Sometimes, they just can't, or on the other hand, the situation in their country keeps on worsening. It's not like the crisis in US or Europe can be settled in 2-3 years. Singapore is one of the "clean gate" in Asia, and pretty diverse in terms of races. I guess this is why they "die-die" want to stay in this little red dot.
Last edited by v4jr4 on Wed, 12 Sep 2012 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 3:05 pm

IOP, are you talking about intellectually smart or street smart? Locals are intellectually smart (in a very narrow band - due to the educational system) but are mental midgets when it comes to street smarts and doing what ever it takes to get a toe hold. This is why those from the subcontinent are so good at taking your jobs. They have groveling down to a fine art. :-D

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 3:13 pm

IOP wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:This will keep up until a number of MNC shift their operations to Malaysia and/or Thailand because of labour costs


One of the main niche of Singapore outsourcing work from one country to another (not always from company to company). This is manly because it hard to apply for a work permit for smart foreigners from other countries in US & UK. In case if MY or TH will adopt the same, it may be shifted.
Otherwise, local professional there won't be able to handle all types of work.
Also Singapore has top level infrastructure. Neither MY or TH has that.


You are extremely naive if you believe that. You better go see just what MNC industries are already there. I have been a Regional HH for many years over here. The only thing that has kept them here for so long already is a very compliant government. With that changing, so with a lot of MNCs. They have already lost Evergreen Shipping and Maersk Shipping. Two of the largest. Most of the MNC disc drive manufacturers have already left. And these were before the tightening of labour laws. And there are a heck of a lot of talented people in both countries mentioned that have gotten their educations in the UK/US/Aus. With the cost savings in labour, they can afford to pay more to get prime talent. In fact, they could probably import Singaporeans for the lower PMET positions....... :o :lol:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 3:17 pm

The only reason Singapore has been able to do what it has done, was for one big reason and a leader who recognized it for what it was and utilized it. Has nothing to do with anything we've talked about.

The natural port and the Straits of Singapore. Without which, NONE of this would have been possible and LKY had nothing to do with its creation at all.

And without the port, and strategic location, it cannot be duplicated.

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Postby nakatago » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 3:41 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:IOP, are you talking about intellectually smart or street smart? Locals are intellectually smart (in a very narrow band - due to the educational system) but are mental midgets when it comes to street smarts and doing what ever it takes to get a toe hold. This is why those from the subcontinent are so good at taking your jobs. They have groveling down to a fine art. :-D

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Highly trained, not necessarily highly educated.

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Postby the lynx » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 4:09 pm

IOP wrote:Also Singapore has top level infrastructure. Neither MY or TH has that.


I'm afraid you truly do not understand the meaning of the word infrastructure. Infrastructure is easy. Given the money, any country can pull it off.

Haven't you figured out that many top semicon companies such as Flexicon, Dell and Intel have moved operations to north Malaysia and many manufacturing giants (such as P&G etc) have moved to central Thailand?

Infrastructure all right. In these countries, it is even cheaper.

The only thing MY and TH does not have is compliant government like what SMS said.

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 4:15 pm

nakatago wrote:Highly trained, not necessarily highly educated.


I'd go with "Highly educated, no necessarily highly intelligent" myself.

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Re: Doesn't Harry like Indonesians?

Postby x9200 » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 4:27 pm

IOP wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:It's a damn shame not to be able to use them in Singapore.



My 5 cents: I like Singapore as it is now and I think the gov. does everything right.
Should we have more people from some country? May be okay, but I think those people who take decisions are not motivated by racial views, but practical. You think that you guys behind the fence are smart, ethical, educated. Fine, but why don't you build your own Singapore in that case instead of blaming small island? There is a good demand for smart people in this world these days and you will be able to find a good job if you are truly smart.

Not sure what you intended to achieve with the above post but saying you should do it by yourself if you want to express your negative opinion about something is a very mature class of arguments. Very.

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Re: Doesn't Harry like Indonesians?

Postby IOP » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 4:50 pm

x9200 wrote:
IOP wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:It's a damn shame not to be able to use them in Singapore.



My 5 cents: I like Singapore as it is now and I think the gov. does everything right.
Should we have more people from some country? May be okay, but I think those people who take decisions are not motivated by racial views, but practical. You think that you guys behind the fence are smart, ethical, educated. Fine, but why don't you build your own Singapore in that case instead of blaming small island? There is a good demand for smart people in this world these days and you will be able to find a good job if you are truly smart.

Not sure what you intended to achieve with the above post but saying you should do it by yourself if you want to express your negative opinion about something is a very mature class of arguments. Very.


Just want to make it clear. Nothing to do with neighbors or whatever.
This is just a modification of oldies "if youre so smart why arent you rich".
Anyone who claim claim that he has good skills may face this question.
I just asked softly.

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Re: Doesn't Harry like Indonesians?

Postby x9200 » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 5:21 pm

IOP wrote:Just want to make it clear. Nothing to do with neighbors or whatever.
This is just a modification of oldies "if youre so smart why arent you rich".
Anyone who claim claim that he has good skills may face this question.
I just asked softly.

Firstly, if your presence on this board was less incidental you would notice that there are hardly anybody from the regulars that questions the practicality of the SG government. So in general you brought in a heavy artillery to kill a non-existing target. Instead, what has been repeated here many times is that Singapore is an enterprise, well managed enterprise.
Secondly, your oldies saying is the same class as the modified one. It's a smart ass response that conveniently omits all the background factors leading to a success or a failure. I don't think anyone mature enough should be afraid and have problems answering it.
Lastly, OSD just mentioned there are people worth to be considered outside the current approach and you built up a theory around this sentence that IMHO has nothing to do with his intentions.

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Re: Doesn't Harry like Indonesians?

Postby IOP » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 5:29 pm

x9200 wrote:Firstly, if your presence on this board was less incidental you would notice that there are hardly anybody from the regulars that questions the practicality of the SG government. So in general you brought in a heavy artillery to kill a non-existing target. Instead, what has been repeated here many times is that Singapore is an enterprise, well managed enterprise.
Secondly, your oldies saying is the same class as the modified one. It's a smart ass response that conveniently omits all the background factors leading to a success or a failure. I don't think anyone mature enough should be afraid and have problems answering it.
Lastly, OSD just mentioned there are people worth to be considered outside the current approach and you built up a theory around this sentence that IMHO has nothing to do with his intentions.


whatever floats your boat.

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Re: Doesn't Harry like Indonesians?

Postby v4jr4 » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 5:30 pm

IOP wrote:Just want to make it clear. Nothing to do with neighbors or whatever.
This is just a modification of oldies "if youre so smart why arent you rich".
Anyone who claim claim that he has good skills may face this question.
I just asked softly.


Add "powerless". A douche with power can grind smart people to make sausages (not from old quote, but at least, that happens in my home country) :P
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Postby movingtospore » Wed, 12 Sep 2012 6:16 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:v4jr4, no, I wouldn't assume that at all. As you have already read, quota's have been chopped for both S passes AND WORK PERMITS. The Services sector has been chopped over all by 5 percent and the sub-quota for S pass holders has also been cut by 5%. The WP's are your low level workers. They are being reduced.

What is happening is that they are upping the levies to astronomical levels and cutting back the overall quotas. This will eventually lead to a point where it doesn't make any economic sense to bring in foreigner. Then, in order to get the picky locals to take up these jobs, the companies will be forced to pay a decent wage in order to get the local to accept it, even though it goes against the grain. The employers are the ones who get screwed as their costs go up, but their productivity doesn't, due to the shoddy work habits of locals and their constant just walking off the job. They employers will have no choice but to keep hiring locals as the gahmen continue to reduce the quotas.

This will keep up until a number of MNC shift their operations to Malaysia and/or Thailand because of labour costs. Then unemployment WILL make itself felt (it's been 0% for years - well 2% structural which is nothing). When that happens, the locals, the gahmen, Singapore......All screwed. The PAP will be voted out if they don't get rid of a lot of foreigners and when the MNCs start leaving because they cannot get manpower, they PAP will get voted out. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. The local population doesn't realize that as long as they have a decreasing fertility rate, it's going to get worse. It's coming, mark my words.


And the Philippines...they are coming on strong, decent education, entrepreneurial, they work in English, and are hungry to grow. I think they are going to surpass this tiny place in no time.


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