Doesn't Harry like Indonesians?

[offshoreoildude]

Seriously, what's the story behind the impossibilities of obtaining work passes for Indonesians? In my last work place HR told me 'don't even bother interviewing Indo engineers; we'll never get a pass for them - no matter what salary or level they are'. Now I've met some Indonesians here - they are usually professionals and seem to have come in via a third country (i.e. after graduatiing). I've met some Indonesian boat men - here illegally maybe or on some sort of seamans' pass. But what is Harry's hard on about? Is he worried about the 35th Chinese Province being over run by Javanese? Does he hate muslims? Does he dislike the food?

I've found Indonesian engineers to be smart, well educated, loyal, hard working, heck even ethical! It's a damn shame not to be able to use them in Singapore.

[sundaymorningstaple]

It is a relatively new phenomena I think as previously, they were being offered LPR when graduating from local Universities but that route seemed to have dried up in the past two years. Even those who received the invitations and didn't take it up at that time are now being rejected. Unsure what the problem is but it is a real one. (Unless Harry is getting afraid of all the ill gotten gains that are parked on this little island via Indonesians getting their money out of Indonesia). In fact, until the shut down of the Landed PR scheme, Honkies and Indonesians were the biggest recipients of the LPR scheme.

[v4jr4]

From the other forum, I may get several clues:
1. The "jumpers". Some Indonesians will jump to another company within months, and not years. The reason? To "polish" the CV so they can get a better salary.
2. The "I'm bored" groups. I know the lifestyle in Singapore is kinda "mild", but some Indonesians said "I miss Indonesian food", "I miss the ABC mall", etc-etc-etc. And that's it. Those guys flew back for some simple reasons, although they already applied PR. Heck.
3. The "bad-luck" sects. They have the good knowledge and skills through working experience or self-learning, and good manners. So, where's the problem? The answer: the institute they enrolled in. It's not in MoM's list. Some private institutes in Indonesia (or I have to say Jakarta) are pretty expensive.

[sundaymorningstaple]

If there were jumpers, they wouldn't be any different than Singaporeans, Indians or PRCs who are not on work permits. I'll bet you there are at least three recent threads (in the past two weeks alone) on job hoppers here before they even get their EP or S passes issued, but are already approved. So nothing new there.

Oddly enough, I don't see that with educated Malaysians, Malaysian workers? same-same, but if they come here with diplomas or degrees they are usually more dependable or at least for two years anyway. After that, yeah, they've gotten some experience under their belts and time to then demand their worth instead of "paying their dues". Same all aren't like that. Us HR types would have a heck of a lot less work to do.

[zzm9980]

Honkies

?

I've never heard that before, except years ago in the US as a slur against caucasians.... (yes, something that isn't ang mo!)[/quote]

[v4jr4]

If there were jumpers, they wouldn't be any different than Singaporeans, Indians or PRCs who are not on work permits. I'll bet you there are at least three recent threads (in the past two weeks alone) on job hoppers here before they even get their EP or S passes issued, but are already approved. So nothing new there.

Oddly enough, I don't see that with educated Malaysians, Malaysian workers? same-same, but if they come here with diplomas or degrees they are usually more dependable or at least for two years anyway. After that, yeah, they've gotten some experience under their belts and time to then demand their worth instead of "paying their dues". Same all aren't like that. Us HR types would have a heck of a lot less work to do.

Yep. Jumpers are everywhere. But I'm not sure if MoM will set a link between jumpers and nationality. If they do, then jialat

As for Malaysians, I can only set another assumption that they are pretty much on the "safe" position due to the political relationship.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Have you ever wondered WHY you have the same FIN number no matter how many times you leave here and return and get another job with a different employer? The only time the FIN will ever change is when you get PR. The you get a different series of numbers used for NRICs. Therefore EVERY time you file for a position, they approve a position, they cancel a position is there in their computerized records. Anything you do in Singapore that is work related is there for permanent record.

ZZM, the term Honkies in Asia refers to those from Hong Kong. Especially during the runup to the 1997 turnover when Singapore issued 20,000 LPRs for the asking to anybody from Honk Kong who wanted to flee to Singapore before the turnover to China. There was a huge uproar when the locals found out because they didn't like the honkies as they were hustlers and would work circles around the locals who had gotten lazy.

[v4jr4]

Have you ever wondered WHY you have the same FIN number no matter how many times you leave here and return and get another job with a different employer? The only time the FIN will ever change is when you get PR. The you get a different series of numbers used for NRICs. Therefore EVERY time you file for a position, they approve a position, they cancel a position is there in their computerized records. Anything you do in Singapore that is work related is there for permanent record.

Ah, a new info. Thanks for that
*I never jump to another company. Not yet.

[lan_libra]

Seriously, what's the story behind the impossibilities of obtaining work passes for Indonesians? In my last work place HR told me 'don't even bother interviewing Indo engineers; we'll never get a pass for them - no matter what salary or level they are'. Now I've met some Indonesians here - they are usually professionals and seem to have come in via a third country (i.e. after graduatiing). I've met some Indonesian boat men - here illegally maybe or on some sort of seamans' pass. But what is Harry's hard on about? Is he worried about the 35th Chinese Province being over run by Javanese? Does he hate muslims? Does he dislike the food?

I've found Indonesian engineers to be smart, well educated, loyal, hard working, heck even ethical! It's a damn shame not to be able to use them in Singapore.

As a sporean Muslim myself,ur Question of Does he hate muslims is Questionable.Fyi most of the citizenship given are to 1st-PRCs,2nd-Pinoys,3rd-Indian Nationals.Soon we malay muslim will be the very minorities in our own land.Thou some may get confuse of the Pinoys as Malays.I am not racist and I am only stating the facts right.Probably Msian Chinese/Indians not malay can easily get PR or Citizenship.Indonesian Chinese not Muslims if they are Rich can easily get PR or Citizenship here.This is Hard Truth.Its not that Sporeans hate FTs but the Govt opened the floodgates to welcome not talent but purely unskilled workers to work here.example:Pump Attendants,Cashiers,Servers,Call Ctrs,Customer svc,Hawkers,Singers etc..And these people were granted PR or Citizenship easily.Tell me which country have done that?In the 80's AND 90's there are Expats and professionals from other countries or Contruction labours,non of the sporeans are annoyed thus we welcome them to build this nation with us.Look around,there are tons of PRCs even as Drivers whom caused nuisance here with accidents etc...
Peace Everyone...

[sundaymorningstaple]

Seriously, what's the story behind the impossibilities of obtaining work passes for Indonesians? In my last work place HR told me 'don't even bother interviewing Indo engineers; we'll never get a pass for them - no matter what salary or level they are'. Now I've met some Indonesians here - they are usually professionals and seem to have come in via a third country (i.e. after graduatiing). I've met some Indonesian boat men - here illegally maybe or on some sort of seamans' pass. But what is Harry's hard on about? Is he worried about the 35th Chinese Province being over run by Javanese? Does he hate muslims? Does he dislike the food?

I've found Indonesian engineers to be smart, well educated, loyal, hard working, heck even ethical! It's a damn shame not to be able to use them in Singapore.

As a sporean Muslim myself,ur Question of Does he hate muslims is Questionable.Fyi most of the citizenship given are to 1st-PRCs,2nd-Pinoys,3rd-Indian Nationals.Soon we malay muslim will be the very minorities in our own land.Thou some may get confuse of the Pinoys as Malays.I am not racist and I am only stating the facts right.Probably Msian Chinese/Indians not malay can easily get PR or Citizenship.Indonesian Chinese not Muslims if they are Rich can easily get PR or Citizenship here.This is Hard Truth.Its not that Sporeans hate FTs but the Govt opened the floodgates to welcome not talent but purely unskilled workers to work here.example:Pump Attendants,Cashiers,Servers,Call Ctrs,Customer svc,Hawkers,Singers etc..And these people were granted PR or Citizenship easily.Tell me which country have done that?In the 80's AND 90's there are Expats and professionals from other countries or Contruction labours,non of the sporeans are annoyed thus we welcome them to build this nation with us.Look around,there are tons of PRCs even as Drivers whom caused nuisance here with accidents etc...
Peace Everyone...

Not too sure, but did you just wake up after sleeping for the last 47 years? You have been a 14% minority in Singapore since independence. d'oh! Seems like all the "service" jobs you listed are those jobs that Singaporeans shun. Same with the labour jobs. Tell me, how many countries are countries, but not a country, only a city state with no resources as picky workers? If it weren't for foreign labour you would still be like your relatives across the Causeway. They have forced you to up your game. The PRCs and foreigners as a whole cause a very small percentage of all the accidents here. You ought to do some research before coming on here and making a fool out of yourself. Have a good day looking up the reals facts.

[v4jr4]

Seriously, what's the story behind the impossibilities of obtaining work passes for Indonesians? In my last work place HR told me 'don't even bother interviewing Indo engineers; we'll never get a pass for them - no matter what salary or level they are'. Now I've met some Indonesians here - they are usually professionals and seem to have come in via a third country (i.e. after graduatiing). I've met some Indonesian boat men - here illegally maybe or on some sort of seamans' pass. But what is Harry's hard on about? Is he worried about the 35th Chinese Province being over run by Javanese? Does he hate muslims? Does he dislike the food?

I've found Indonesian engineers to be smart, well educated, loyal, hard working, heck even ethical! It's a damn shame not to be able to use them in Singapore.

As a sporean Muslim myself,ur Question of Does he hate muslims is Questionable.Fyi most of the citizenship given are to 1st-PRCs,2nd-Pinoys,3rd-Indian Nationals.Soon we malay muslim will be the very minorities in our own land.Thou some may get confuse of the Pinoys as Malays.I am not racist and I am only stating the facts right.Probably Msian Chinese/Indians not malay can easily get PR or Citizenship.Indonesian Chinese not Muslims if they are Rich can easily get PR or Citizenship here.This is Hard Truth.Its not that Sporeans hate FTs but the Govt opened the floodgates to welcome not talent but purely unskilled workers to work here.example:Pump Attendants,Cashiers,Servers,Call Ctrs,Customer svc,Hawkers,Singers etc..And these people were granted PR or Citizenship easily.Tell me which country have done that?In the 80's AND 90's there are Expats and professionals from other countries or Contruction labours,non of the sporeans are annoyed thus we welcome them to build this nation with us.Look around,there are tons of PRCs even as Drivers whom caused nuisance here with accidents etc...
Peace Everyone...

Not too sure, but did you just wake up after sleeping for the last 47 years? You have been a 14% minority in Singapore since independence. d'oh! Seems like all the "service" jobs you listed are those jobs that Singaporeans shun. Same with the labour jobs. Tell me, how many countries are countries, but not a country, only a city state with no resources as picky workers? If it weren't for foreign labour you would still be like your relatives across the Causeway. They have forced you to up your game. The PRCs and foreigners as a whole cause a very small percentage of all the accidents here. You ought to do some research before coming on here and making a fool out of yourself. Have a good day looking up the reals facts.

Tendency for being picky? I know not all SCs are picky - please forgive my "naive side" - but I'll assume the picky attitude is the reason why blue collar workers from other countries will always be on the safe side.

[sundaymorningstaple]

v4jr4, no, I wouldn't assume that at all. As you have already read, quota's have been chopped for both S passes AND WORK PERMITS. The Services sector has been chopped over all by 5 percent and the sub-quota for S pass holders has also been cut by 5%. The WP's are your low level workers. They are being reduced.

What is happening is that they are upping the levies to astronomical levels and cutting back the overall quotas. This will eventually lead to a point where it doesn't make any economic sense to bring in foreigner. Then, in order to get the picky locals to take up these jobs, the companies will be forced to pay a decent wage in order to get the local to accept it, even though it goes against the grain. The employers are the ones who get screwed as their costs go up, but their productivity doesn't, due to the shoddy work habits of locals and their constant just walking off the job. They employers will have no choice but to keep hiring locals as the gahmen continue to reduce the quotas.

This will keep up until a number of MNC shift their operations to Malaysia and/or Thailand because of labour costs. Then unemployment WILL make itself felt (it's been 0% for years - well 2% structural which is nothing). When that happens, the locals, the gahmen, Singapore......All screwed. The PAP will be voted out if they don't get rid of a lot of foreigners and when the MNCs start leaving because they cannot get manpower, they PAP will get voted out. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. The local population doesn't realize that as long as they have a decreasing fertility rate, it's going to get worse. It's coming, mark my words.

[x9200]

Have you ever wondered WHY you have the same FIN number no matter how many times you leave here and return and get another job with a different employer? The only time the FIN will ever change is when you get PR.

Because FIN stands for and is Foreigner Identification No not Employee Identification No. There is no reason why it should change with the the work pass if the very foreigner remains the same
IIRC local DL has the FIN too.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I've never wondered. As an HR Manager I already know.....

[IOP]

It's a damn shame not to be able to use them in Singapore.

My 5 cents: I like Singapore as it is now and I think the gov. does everything right.
Should we have more people from some country? May be okay, but I think those people who take decisions are not motivated by racial views, but practical. You think that you guys behind the fence are smart, ethical, educated. Fine, but why don't you build your own Singapore in that case instead of blaming small island? There is a good demand for smart people in this world these days and you will be able to find a good job if you are truly smart.