Low Wages

v4jr4 · Post by **v4jr4** » Tue, 18 Sep 2012 5:55 pm

zzm9980 wrote:I've seen so much mix and match and overlap with IT titles that I ignore the last word, be it Admin, Analyst, Engineer, Specialist. They all do the same crap mostly

*ouch*
Sad but true

huangliuyu · Post by **huangliuyu** » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 2:48 pm

I am gaining $1200 too.
After paid house rental, food and traffic, nothing left at all.

Post by **Strong Eagle** » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 4:14 pm

zzm9980 wrote:I've seen so much mix and match and overlap with IT titles that I ignore the last word, be it Admin, Analyst, Engineer, Specialist. They all do the same crap mostly

"Engineer" is really a load of crap. Those of us that have obtained ABET certified engineering degrees are engineers. A code monkey calling himself a "software engineer" implies that he knows something besides coding... you know, like advanced mathematics, and one or more engineering specialties from one of the branches.

I don't know who the hosehead was that decided code monkeys should be called "engineer" but it is one of the most egregious examples of title inflation.

You can code programs. You can design programs for coders. You can specify GUI's and DB's for coders and DBA's. You can specify business rules and logistics for program designers. None of this remotely makes one an engineer.

I am a former code grunt, application designer, systems analyst and manager of a large applications programming shop. And... an electrical engineer with specialties in robotics, digital communications processing, and image and sound processing.

offshoreoildude · Post by **offshoreoildude** » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 4:29 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:I've seen so much mix and match and overlap with IT titles that I ignore the last word, be it Admin, Analyst, Engineer, Specialist. They all do the same crap mostly
"Engineer" is really a load of crap. Those of us that have obtained ABET certified engineering degrees are engineers. A code monkey calling himself a "software engineer" implies that he knows something besides coding... you know, like advanced mathematics, and one or more engineering specialties from one of the branches.

I don't know who the hosehead was that decided code monkeys should be called "engineer" but it is one of the most egregious examples of title inflation.

You can code programs. You can design programs for coders. You can specify GUI's and DB's for coders and DBA's. You can specify business rules and logistics for program designers. None of this remotely makes one an engineer.

I am a former code grunt, application designer, systems analyst and manager of a large applications programming shop. And... an electrical engineer with specialties in robotics, digital communications processing, and image and sound processing.

But... are you a member of a relevant professional or chartered engineering group? In Australia at least there is a push to stop people who are not chartered or members of IEAust allowing themselves to be called an engineer. I myself have an engineering qualification and agree that there is massive misuse of the title - I try not to use it but be more specific in the titles I assign people. Singapore has also created a 'CPEng' or similar suffix which is legally protected allowing certain types of engineers to become chartered professional engineers. However, until the governments of various countries allow prosecution of individuals misleading the world with an engineering title, the malfeasance will continue.

ecureilx · Post by **ecureilx** » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 4:33 pm

Strong Eagle wrote: You can code programs. You can design programs for coders. You can specify GUI's and DB's for coders and DBA's. You can specify business rules and logistics for program designers. None of this remotely makes one an engineer. ...

Then again, in IT, everybody is an Engineer .. desktop Engineer, Laptop Engineer, Red Hat Engineer, Microsoft Office Engineer, Exchange Server Engineer

I have often corrected people, when they call me an Engineer, that I am NOT an engineer- per-se, I am a system support specialist .. that's it .. especially when my highest qualification is Post Grad in Marketing ..

And I do get uncomfortable, especially in Philippines, when they insist that I be address as Er X .. and then they go to compare me with some Real Engineer who is lecturing in Some Uni .. or so .. I do get stressed .. seriously ..

Post by **Strong Eagle** » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 4:36 pm

offshoreoildude wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:I've seen so much mix and match and overlap with IT titles that I ignore the last word, be it Admin, Analyst, Engineer, Specialist. They all do the same crap mostly
"Engineer" is really a load of crap. Those of us that have obtained ABET certified engineering degrees are engineers. A code monkey calling himself a "software engineer" implies that he knows something besides coding... you know, like advanced mathematics, and one or more engineering specialties from one of the branches.

I don't know who the hosehead was that decided code monkeys should be called "engineer" but it is one of the most egregious examples of title inflation.

You can code programs. You can design programs for coders. You can specify GUI's and DB's for coders and DBA's. You can specify business rules and logistics for program designers. None of this remotely makes one an engineer.

I am a former code grunt, application designer, systems analyst and manager of a large applications programming shop. And... an electrical engineer with specialties in robotics, digital communications processing, and image and sound processing.
But... are you a member of a relevant professional or chartered engineering group? In Australia at least there is a push to stop people who are not chartered or members of IEAust allowing themselves to be called an engineer. I myself have an engineering qualification and agree that there is massive misuse of the title - I try not to use it but be more specific in the titles I assign people.

In the US, one must become a certified "professional engineer" PE, and it is nearly impossible to get hired as a "practicing" engineer in the chemical, structural, and civil fields without a PE, which takes 5 years of work experience to obtain. The reasons are obvious: Safety of projects.

With electrical and mechanical engineers, the field is much more wide open. Designing an "unsafe" computer chip or mousetrap doesn't present nearly the problems of an unsafe bridge or building, and hence, PE is not generally required, and many organizations that hire electrical engineers don't even have PE certification programs in place.

While I hold an engineering degree, I don't call myself an engineer except in the academic sense of the word, because I don't do engineering related work... I manage large infrastructure projects... hey... maybe I should be a Project Engineer!

Post by **Strong Eagle** » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 4:42 pm

ecureilx wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote: You can code programs. You can design programs for coders. You can specify GUI's and DB's for coders and DBA's. You can specify business rules and logistics for program designers. None of this remotely makes one an engineer. ...
Then again, in IT, everybody is an Engineer .. desktop Engineer, Laptop Engineer, Red Hat Engineer, Microsoft Office Engineer, Exchange Server Engineer

I have often corrected people, when they call me an Engineer, that I am NOT an engineer- per-se, I am a system support specialist .. that's it .. especially when my highest qualification is Post Grad in Marketing ..

And I do get uncomfortable, especially in Philippines, when they insist that I be address as Er X .. and then they go to compare me with some Real Engineer who is lecturing in Some Uni .. or so .. I do get stressed .. seriously ..

I keep seeing ads for "IT Executives", which then describe the job as:

Responsibilities
- Install, configure, administer, and maintain software and associated hardware, in accordance with technical specifications.
- Communicate with system users; and investigate, trouble-shoot, and resolve IT related problems within the SLA.
- Implement and effectively utilize relevant tools to continuously enhance the management and capabilities of the organization’s EUC environment.
- Liaise with vendors for procurement

v4jr4 · Post by **v4jr4** » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 4:48 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:I keep seeing ads for "IT Executives", which then describe the job as:

Responsibilities
- Install, configure, administer, and maintain software and associated hardware, in accordance with technical specifications.
- Communicate with system users; and investigate, trouble-shoot, and resolve IT related problems within the SLA.
- Implement and effectively utilize relevant tools to continuously enhance the management and capabilities of the organization’s EUC environment.
- Liaise with vendors for procurement

Euh . . . it's hard to say that those responsibilities are for "IT Executives". I have to say "IT Support"++

revhappy · Post by **revhappy** » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 6:42 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:I've seen so much mix and match and overlap with IT titles that I ignore the last word, be it Admin, Analyst, Engineer, Specialist. They all do the same crap mostly
"Engineer" is really a load of crap. Those of us that have obtained ABET certified engineering degrees are engineers. A code monkey calling himself a "software engineer" implies that he knows something besides coding... you know, like advanced mathematics, and one or more engineering specialties from one of the branches.

I don't know who the hosehead was that decided code monkeys should be called "engineer" but it is one of the most egregious examples of title inflation.

You can code programs. You can design programs for coders. You can specify GUI's and DB's for coders and DBA's. You can specify business rules and logistics for program designers. None of this remotely makes one an engineer.

I am a former code grunt, application designer, systems analyst and manager of a large applications programming shop. And... an electrical engineer with specialties in robotics, digital communications processing, and image and sound processing.

You think software consultant is a better word? In my previous company my title was business intelligence consultant, as I developed software in MS BI space. I just loved that title.

Post by **Strong Eagle** » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:33 pm

revhappy wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:I've seen so much mix and match and overlap with IT titles that I ignore the last word, be it Admin, Analyst, Engineer, Specialist. They all do the same crap mostly
"Engineer" is really a load of crap. Those of us that have obtained ABET certified engineering degrees are engineers. A code monkey calling himself a "software engineer" implies that he knows something besides coding... you know, like advanced mathematics, and one or more engineering specialties from one of the branches.

I don't know who the hosehead was that decided code monkeys should be called "engineer" but it is one of the most egregious examples of title inflation.

You can code programs. You can design programs for coders. You can specify GUI's and DB's for coders and DBA's. You can specify business rules and logistics for program designers. None of this remotely makes one an engineer.

I am a former code grunt, application designer, systems analyst and manager of a large applications programming shop. And... an electrical engineer with specialties in robotics, digital communications processing, and image and sound processing.
You think software consultant is a better word? In my previous company my title was business intelligence consultant, as I developed software in MS BI space. I just loved that title.

At least it's not a lie like "engineer" is. Consultant suggests expertise in a given field, available to work to solve specific problems.

It's all part of an overall expansion of meaningless everything. Every giveaway has "awesome" prizes. No longer good enough to be a star... superstar, at least. Salesmen are "account executives". Sheesh!

the lynx · Post by **the lynx** » Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:52 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:Salesmen are "account executives". Sheesh!

Oh I thought those titles are for actual accountants?

From what I see, salesmen are called "business development executives".

Post by **x9200** » Tue, 02 Oct 2012 8:34 am

Soon a cleaning auntie will be detergent-water mixtures executive for flat surfaces.

the lynx · Post by **the lynx** » Tue, 02 Oct 2012 8:48 am

x9200 wrote:Soon a cleaning auntie will be detergent-water mixtures executive for flat surfaces.

Did you know that some mechanics here give away their business cards stating their titles as "automobile specialist"?

Post by **Strong Eagle** » Tue, 02 Oct 2012 8:57 am

the lynx wrote:
x9200 wrote:Soon a cleaning auntie will be detergent-water mixtures executive for flat surfaces.
Did you know that some mechanics here give away their business cards stating their titles as "automobile specialist"?

The guy who owns the car repair shop I go to has a business card which says, "workshop executive".

Post by **nakatago** » Tue, 02 Oct 2012 9:03 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
the lynx wrote:
x9200 wrote:Soon a cleaning auntie will be detergent-water mixtures executive for flat surfaces.
Did you know that some mechanics here give away their business cards stating their titles as "automobile specialist"?
The guy who owns the car repair shop I go to has a business card which says, "workshop executive".

Well, the sanitation and maintenance engineer just asked us not to drop crumbs on the carpet.

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