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PR Rejected after 6 months of waiting

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
vishalgupta2
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Postby vishalgupta2 » Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:56 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote::oops!: :shit:

That's what I get for not going back and rereading the first post!

Would be a sure way to probably get a paid ticket to go home!


Reading all the Indian PR rejections over the last few days, I have seen cases where couples making 250k were declined, couples with good income and a male son were declined. Most of them had atleast 3 years in Singapore. On the other hand, Malaysian Chinese get approved on Q/S pass with incomes of 30k per year.

I am getting this strong feeling that it's all over for Indians in Singapore (at least until something major changes politically). Only the rarest of rare cases may get an approval. They just hold on the Indian PR application for a few months and then issue a deadly Rejection with NOT SO GOLDEN words "You can stay and work as long as you have a Pass"

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:32 pm

I think the key at the moment is having a "real" niche skillset (not one that there are already several thousand of here) that the government actually is in dire need of. If you have one of those and are from the subcontinent you will probably waltz right into PR. But you have to really be bringing something to the table that they want.

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Postby vishalgupta2 » Sat, 01 Sep 2012 2:28 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I think the key at the moment is having a "real" niche skillset (not one that there are already several thousand of here) that the government actually is in dire need of. If you have one of those and are from the subcontinent you will probably waltz right into PR. But you have to really be bringing something to the table that they want.


+1

This is exactly what i mean by 'rarest of rare' skills given the fact that Software engineer with Masters from India is probably the most common skill as of today.

btw, on a separate note, do you think holding a patent may qualify to be special?

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 01 Sep 2012 8:40 am

vishalgupta2 wrote:btw, on a separate note, do you think holding a patent may qualify to be special?

Almost certainly not. A patent is more the matter of money than any unique skills.

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Postby vishalgupta2 » Sat, 01 Sep 2012 11:33 am

x9200 wrote:
vishalgupta2 wrote:btw, on a separate note, do you think holding a patent may qualify to be special?

Almost certainly not. A patent is more the matter of money than any unique skills.


I don't get how is patent a matter of money and not a unique skill. You have 1000s of employees in any company with only 1-2 being able to come up with something worth patenting. How is that a matter of money and not skill / talent?

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 01 Sep 2012 12:14 pm

If I had $S25k to spend with no pain whatsoever I could get a patent without any effort. The main trick is not to be hyper inventive but be sufficiently specific and not to infringe other patents, so primerly it's a matter of money not a talent or skills.
Also, the everyday practice in MNC and not only MNCs is to patent anything that may have potential impact including what may stop the competition (it does not need to be useful at all). They can afford it and it's a way to mitigate the IP risk. These 1000 you mentioned are not working on inventions but for production. R&D is probably 1% of it.

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Postby zzm9980 » Sat, 01 Sep 2012 9:42 pm

x9200 wrote:If I had $S25k to spend with no pain whatsoever I could get a patent without any effort. The main trick is not to be hyper inventive but be sufficiently specific and not to infringe other patents, so primerly it's a matter of money not a talent or skills.
Also, the everyday practice in MNC and not only MNCs is to patent anything that may have potential impact including what may stop the competition (it does not need to be useful at all). They can afford it and it's a way to mitigate the IP risk. These 1000 you mentioned are not working on inventions but for production. R&D is probably 1% of it.


I have a coworker who's had three patents issued in the past year or so. While they're specific enough, they're also rather generic and with very slight modification to the wording, can apply to a lot of things. It makes me believe I could turn at least a random dozen ideas I've had into a patent. The key thing is my MNC has a huge team of patent lawyers (no snide comments if you know who i work for :P) that took his 5-6 pages per idea and turned them into 100+ pages of a working patent. So yeah, having a patent just means you had access to good patent lawyers.

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Postby revhappy » Sun, 02 Sep 2012 2:30 pm

vishalgupta2 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote::oops!: :shit:

That's what I get for not going back and rereading the first post!

Would be a sure way to probably get a paid ticket to go home!


Reading all the Indian PR rejections over the last few days, I have seen cases where couples making 250k were declined, couples with good income and a male son were declined. Most of them had atleast 3 years in Singapore. On the other hand, Malaysian Chinese get approved on Q/S pass with incomes of 30k per year.

I am getting this strong feeling that it's all over for Indians in Singapore (at least until something major changes politically). Only the rarest of rare cases may get an approval. They just hold on the Indian PR application for a few months and then issue a deadly Rejection with NOT SO GOLDEN words "You can stay and work as long as you have a Pass"


It's not all over for Indians in Singapore. To be fair Indians always treated pr as a means to save on rental and buy hdbs. Not getting pr only means that they won't buy the overpriced hdbs anymore and continue to rent. Some did take up pr just because it was available so easy, especially if they were bachelors, so they could stay back in case they lose jobs. I am yet to come across Indians in my circle who have been desperate for pr, to make Singapore their home. :-| so it really doesn't change anything for them, except that those who cant bear the rentals anymore, decide to quit, that's happening already, but I doubt whether , if they had pr, they would have bought something at these prices, anyways.
Last edited by revhappy on Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby offshoreoildude » Sun, 02 Sep 2012 3:23 pm

x9200 wrote:If I had $S25k to spend with no pain whatsoever I could get a patent without any effort. The main trick is not to be hyper inventive but be sufficiently specific and not to infringe other patents, so primerly it's a matter of money not a talent or skills.
Also, the everyday practice in MNC and not only MNCs is to patent anything that may have potential impact including what may stop the competition (it does not need to be useful at all). They can afford it and it's a way to mitigate the IP risk. These 1000 you mentioned are not working on inventions but for production. R&D is probably 1% of it.


My last employer used patents as a one of their KPI's. I was astonished when they started taking my fairly generic papers and turning them into patents. I didn't mind the money though ($15,000 each).

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Postby nakatago » Sun, 02 Sep 2012 10:53 pm

offshoreoildude wrote:
x9200 wrote:If I had $S25k to spend with no pain whatsoever I could get a patent without any effort. The main trick is not to be hyper inventive but be sufficiently specific and not to infringe other patents, so primerly it's a matter of money not a talent or skills.
Also, the everyday practice in MNC and not only MNCs is to patent anything that may have potential impact including what may stop the competition (it does not need to be useful at all). They can afford it and it's a way to mitigate the IP risk. These 1000 you mentioned are not working on inventions but for production. R&D is probably 1% of it.


My last employer used patents as a one of their KPI's. I was astonished when they started taking my fairly generic papers and turning them into patents. I didn't mind the money though ($15,000 each).


My last employer also used patents as KPIs but we had to do everything short of submitting the documents to the patent office.

But we were a subsidiary of a subsidiary. We'd go through the trouble of writing a full-blown patent, submit them to our management, then our management will send them to mother company....only never to be heard of, and we end up wasting our time writing patent documents just so we could tick boxes on our evaluation. And we did all that without access to proper research materials for prior arts search because my previous company was always in information lockdown. Our documents had to have an exhaustive prior art search as well. And we had very aggressive project schedules but very tedious tasks that our "co-workers" in Japan didn't want to do because they were either troublesome or boring.

I submitted a patent document which local management found very promising but head office just sat on it so I didn't get any money for that.

Then I learn that in some companies, you really just need to articulate your idea and let the IP engineers/lawyers write the full-blown document. And your idea really was enough for ka-ching and not waste your time doing something you're not qualified to do and let someone with proper training handle it.

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 03 Sep 2012 9:15 am

We have it as a technology disclosure exercise with relatively low time expenditure (probably 2 days of work if one is effective). Later another office handles and double checks it from the legal perspective, but the bottom line is you can take a toothpaste, combine it with an organic food colorant from fairprice, name it as a paint for the Collie dog poop, provide some general data and a few detailed recipes and have it patented.

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Postby nakatago » Mon, 03 Sep 2012 9:48 am

x9200 wrote:We have it as a technology disclosure exercise with relatively low time expenditure (probably 2 days of work if one is effective). Later another office handles and double checks it from the legal perspective


My previous employer didn't have this which was really annoying because the document would take a week or more on average...only to be put in approval purgatory in head office.

My current one does, however and makes submitting patents less of a chore.

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Postby zzm9980 » Mon, 03 Sep 2012 10:04 am

nakatago wrote:Then I learn that in some companies, you really just need to articulate your idea and let the IP engineers/lawyers write the full-blown document. And your idea really was enough for ka-ching and not waste your time doing something you're not qualified to do and let someone with proper training handle it.


That's what my company does. It's only worth about US$4k though, not a huge amount.

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Postby nakatago » Mon, 03 Sep 2012 10:11 am

zzm9980 wrote:
nakatago wrote:Then I learn that in some companies, you really just need to articulate your idea and let the IP engineers/lawyers write the full-blown document. And your idea really was enough for ka-ching and not waste your time doing something you're not qualified to do and let someone with proper training handle it.


That's what my company does. It's only worth about US$4k though, not a huge amount.


My previous company used to award 6kPHP for something they rate as high quality. They'd previously give you the money after local approval but they changed the policy such that head office needs to rate it as such first before you get loose change.

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Postby vishalgupta2 » Mon, 03 Sep 2012 12:19 pm

revhappy wrote:
vishalgupta2 wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote::oops!: :shit:

That's what I get for not going back and rereading the first post!

Would be a sure way to probably get a paid ticket to go home!


Reading all the Indian PR rejections over the last few days, I have seen cases where couples making 250k were declined, couples with good income and a male son were declined. Most of them had atleast 3 years in Singapore. On the other hand, Malaysian Chinese get approved on Q/S pass with incomes of 30k per year.

I am getting this strong feeling that it's all over for Indians in Singapore (at least until something major changes politically). Only the rarest of rare cases may get an approval. They just hold on the Indian PR application for a few months and then issue a deadly Rejection with NOT SO GOLDEN words "You can stay and work as long as you have a Pass"


It's not all over for Indians in Singapore. To be fair Indians always treated pr as a means to save on rental and buy hdbs. Not getting pr only means that they won't buy the overpriced hdbs anymore and continue to rent. Some did take up pr just because it was available so easy, especially if they were bachelors, so they could stay back in case they lose jobs. I am yet to come across Indians in my circle who have been desperate for pr, to make Singapore their home. :-| so it really doesn't change anything for them, except that those who cant bear the rentals anymore, decide to quit, that's happening already, but I doubt whether , if they had pr, they would have bought something at these prices, anyways.


It could be just my PoV. I don't want a PR to save on HDB rent, I would probably look at buying a condo. My problem is it's very stressful to live in uncertainity of whether I will be able to renew my Visa and reluctance of many employers in hiring Non PRs/SCs.

Although I have only spent 4 months in Singapore yet, I am trying to understand what impact various changes in my profile will have on my future PR application (not soon).

I do understand what all some (millions) of my fellow countrymen have done in USA/Canada/Singapore.


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