Two of my friends have refused transfers to Singapore

Discuss about life in Singapore. Ask about cost of living, housing, travel, etiquette & lifestyle. Share experience & advice with Singaporeans & expat staying in Singapore.
Post Reply
curiousgeorge
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 1:12 am
Location: Singapore

Post by curiousgeorge » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 7:38 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:A cocktail dress is not proper attire for a recital or operatic performance. Neither is a business suit or just a shirt & tie.
Been a while has it? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Really, there is no dress code for opera, hasn't been for years. They want to be accessible, you know?

curiousgeorge
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 1:12 am
Location: Singapore

Post by curiousgeorge » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 7:41 pm

x9200 wrote:I think it's cultural. No critical mass of local people willing to attend such event. For all the oversees group concerts in Singapore I've seen the significant fraction if not the majority of the audience were Caucasians. This fraction is also higher than country average for the local classical music concerts or theatrical events.
You kind of just proved my point that it IS financial.

MICA stats (make of them what you will) would suggest that people ARE willing. Just not willing to pay.

And if you've seen the majority of audiences made up of Caucasians...well who do you think generally earns more here in Singapore? Does it come as a shock that people with more money go the concerts/theatre more than people without money?!

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 39562
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 1:26 pm
Answers: 10
Location: Retired on the Little Red Dot

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 8:00 pm

CG, about 2 weeks ago, I attended a function at the Grand Ballroom at MBS. It was a black tie affair. While there were a few people there not wearing long evening wear or guys wearing dark business suits, it WAS refreshing to see a sea of tuxes & gowns at the do (probably close to 900~1000 locals there and a very few ang mohs like myself. So they CAN dress up IF they are specifically told to.

Yeah, CG, you are right, but it's a shame that everything has to get dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, isn't it. Probably why there are not positions for Butlers here, even though there is a lot of money here. :?
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9869
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Post by x9200 » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 8:33 pm

curiousgeorge wrote:
x9200 wrote:I think it's cultural. No critical mass of local people willing to attend such event. For all the oversees group concerts in Singapore I've seen the significant fraction if not the majority of the audience were Caucasians. This fraction is also higher than country average for the local classical music concerts or theatrical events.
You kind of just proved my point that it IS financial.

MICA stats (make of them what you will) would suggest that people ARE willing. Just not willing to pay.

And if you've seen the majority of audiences made up of Caucasians...well who do you think generally earns more here in Singapore? Does it come as a shock that people with more money go the concerts/theatre more than people without money?!
2nd point first:
Factor No 1, the general demand: Seeing half empty halls on different occasions and having no problems whatsoever to book tickets on any event I wanted to I think the demand is not there.
Factor No 2, the population that can afford it: how many Singaporeans can without feeling any impact on their budget? Probably more than 20% (I am guessing). The fraction of Caucasians here? 2% or less. -> there is a significant excess of locals that could potentially compete against Caucasians to get the tickets. How is it that the Caucasians win even having the event half seats empty?

1st point: the rudiments are cultural even if later it translates to money (willingness to spent). Probably there are two different cultural scenarios among the people who can afford this, one group who would like to attend and the other who would like to attend but ask themselves the question is it worth the money.

vishalgupta2
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 1:12 pm

Post by vishalgupta2 » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 8:34 pm

nakatago wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
the lynx wrote: I have to agree. Every time I attend a recital or such events, I can tell that there is a significant number of non-locals attending those events.

For one thing, for the 'pragmatic' locals, it is not financially-wise to spend to attend those events.
Nor to dress properly when they do. :-|
...well, some women wear shorts or cocktail dresses as office wear. What more for such a concert?
Off topic, I really miss being able to go to work in a Shorts, T-shirt and sandals in the US...

User avatar
Brah
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 2:59 pm

Post by Brah » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 11:56 pm

Sorry, no. Your point is obvious however, and different. By substantiating it you've missed my point while establishing something else.

There's a lack of cultural choices here, regardless of the reason.

Whatever the reason, financial, distance, drug laws, etc. good artists are few and far between to choose from. Though there's probably no shortage of dreck I'd never go and see.

Net effect: lack of cultural choices.

I don't even care about the reason, it doesn't even matter, it's just a sad fact and statement in response to someone considering moving here that while we get lucky once in a while, even Jakarta and probably Bangkok get better gigs than we do here.

Edit: a bit more content. Because I do that.
curiousgeorge wrote:
Brah wrote:...I was in Tokyo recently (unfair comparison, I know, but, ) and saw the usual long and impressive list of coming music events - Classical, Rock, Jazz, R&B. Here we get old retreads on their last legs
That's not a cultural issue, its a financial one.

A major artist can ask north of S$2m for a concert. Plus the tech, travel, rider, promo costs etc. You have to fill the indoor stadium with 16,000 people each paying more than $150 to make the numbers work.

Maybe Gardens By The Bay will be Singapore's saviour, financially, for the 'big' acts who want $$$.

Having said that, if you look at the old MICA statistics on the number of people who have attended cultural events in any given year, its pretty high - 80%+ IIRC.
But the number of people willing to pay to attend a cultural event is shocking low. Less than 20%.

That's only 800,000 willing to pay for gigs/concerts/theatre/exhibitions on this little red dot. Once you factor in tastes and lifestyle, that drops significantly. For instance, across all theatres the combined database on theatre-goers in Singapore is less than 300,000 people.

I guess in a cause-and-effect kind of way that people's cultural habits here are motivated by their financial situation/limitations.

And if you read the 2012 Arts & Culture Strategic Review, Singapore has a massive plan in place to improve culture in Singapore...not of course to allow people to challenge the status quo in Art, but to promote Singapore oneness and history in the heartlands ;)

Sorry for the OT...
Last edited by Brah on Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Brah
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 2:59 pm

Post by Brah » Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:01 am

Are we raising the prices? I think not.

Just remember the feeding frenzy in 2007-2009 when rents started skyrocketing. RE agents were trying to rationalize with how badly these landlords got hit during the last downturn and needed to make it back, and how everything up to that point was undervalued.

I blame kiasu. I always blame kiasu.

Segue wrote:On a lot of boards, I'm seeing locals blame foreigners for the crowds on the MRT and rising prices of everything.

So, we cause the problem, but we can leave any time!

User avatar
Brah
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sat, 18 Dec 2010 2:59 pm

Post by Brah » Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:11 am

The point here probably is that the Caucasians, as you say, are probably that bored out of their gourds enough to pay up to escape the mundane existence here, whereas the locals are so numb to that since birth that they don't see the need for it.


Sorry, lots of post tonight, the result of a quiet Friday night home....
curiousgeorge wrote:
x9200 wrote:I think it's cultural. No critical mass of local people willing to attend such event
You kind of just proved my point that it IS financial.

And if you've seen the majority of audiences made up of Caucasians...well who do you think generally earns more here in Singapore? Does it come as a shock that people with more money go the concerts/theatre more than people without money?!

User avatar
zzm9980
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6865
Joined: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 1:35 pm
Location: Once more unto the breach

Post by zzm9980 » Sat, 25 Aug 2012 12:30 am

vishalgupta2 wrote:
nakatago wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote: Nor to dress properly when they do. :-|
...well, some women wear shorts or cocktail dresses as office wear. What more for such a concert?
Off topic, I really miss being able to go to work in a Shorts, T-shirt and sandals in the US...
That is common dress code where I work. :) Luckily we follow the US corporate culture!

Segue
Regular
Regular
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 1:09 pm
Location: Singapore

Post by Segue » Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:08 am

The casual nature of this place is one the things I really like. I can wear a Hawaiian shirt and sandals and get into most places except for fine dining.

User avatar
nakatago
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8348
Joined: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 11:23 pm
Location: Sister Margaret’s School for Wayward Children

Post by nakatago » Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:38 am

Some offices still insist on the non-client facing employees going for full costume (long-sleeved, button-up shirt, tie, slacks...). So, you guys who get to work in hawaiian shirts, shorts and sandals, don't take it for granted. :wink:
"A quokka is what would happen if there was an anime about kangaroos."

User avatar
the lynx
Governor
Governor
Posts: 5274
Joined: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 6:29 pm
Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location:

Post by the lynx » Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:49 am

Segue wrote:The casual nature of this place is one the things I really like. I can wear a Hawaiian shirt and sandals and get into most places except for fine dining.
And Singapore is one of the few countries that don't have a problem of having half of working female population wearing the following to work:

1. Shorts (these include mini shorts)
2. Mini skirts
3. Tops with plunging neckline
3. Cocktail dresses (seriously, account girls?)
4. Leggings
5. Tube tops or halter tops
6. Sheer clothes
7. Garish underwear underneath sheer clothes
8. Mini dresses

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 39562
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 1:26 pm
Answers: 10
Location: Retired on the Little Red Dot

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:23 am

Segue wrote:The casual nature of this place is one the things I really like. I can wear a Hawaiian shirt and sandals and get into most places except for fine dining.
Don't think you can get into the Long Bar at the Raffles though.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

User avatar
ScoobyDoes
Manager
Manager
Posts: 1667
Joined: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 6:42 pm
Location: A More Lucky Spot

Post by ScoobyDoes » Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:52 am

x9200 wrote:
curiousgeorge wrote:
x9200 wrote:For all the oversees group concerts in Singapore I've seen the significant fraction if not the majority of the audience were Caucasians.
You kind of just proved my point that it IS financial.

MICA stats (make of them what you will) would suggest that people ARE willing. Just not willing to pay.

And if you've seen the majority of audiences made up of Caucasians...well who do you think generally earns more here in Singapore? Does it come as a shock that people with more money go the concerts/theatre more than people without money?!
Factor No 2, the population that can afford it: how many Singaporeans can without feeling any impact on their budget? Probably more than 20% (I am guessing). The fraction of Caucasians here? 2% or less. -> there is a significant excess of locals that could potentially compete against Caucasians to get the tickets. How is it that the Caucasians win even having the event half seats empty?

1st point: the rudiments are cultural even if later it translates to money (willingness to spent). Probably there are two different cultural scenarios among the people who can afford this, one group who would like to attend and the other who would like to attend but ask themselves the question is it worth the money.

The question is which came first, the higher prices due to lack of demand or lack of demand due to higher prices......prices here are and can be much higher here than in neighbouring Malaysia, Indonesia and even HK for the same performances.

It is like asking why should i spend GBP90,000 on a car here that i know only costs GBP20-25,000 back in the UK? It is because I either MUST or CAN.
'When Lewis Hamilton wins a race he has to thank Vodafone whereas in my day I used to chase the crumpet. I know which era I'd rather race in.'

SIR Stirling Moss OBE

x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9869
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Post by x9200 » Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:25 pm

The whole point IMO is that the price * is not high at all for substantial fraction of the population both the locals and the foreigners - this is a rich society, so having many seats empty it looks to me more like there is no sufficient demand.

*) i.e. $S15-90 for a SSO concert

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Staying, Living in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest