Two of my friends have refused transfers to Singapore

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sundaymorningstaple
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 8:08 am

Well, I've been here 30+ years and continue to fight on. I've been through 5 recessions now. I guess you could say I'm not a quitter. :wink:
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by nakatago » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 9:10 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Well, I've been here 30+ years and continue to fight on. I've been through 5 recessions now. I guess you could say I'm not a quitter. :wink:
Only because you have two children, one of which isn't through the whole system yet. And after that, back to the farm you go!

:P
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Post by the lynx » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 9:14 am

offshoreoildude wrote:Good on them. Of course others from other less well off countries will continue to erode the expat package basis in order to get out of their home country or get a job.
That's because they are not expats (in Singaporean context). They are just transient workers or cheap foreign labour, whichever way you put it.

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Post by Segue » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:41 am

zzm9980 wrote:
Segue wrote: I mean I can just one day pack up and leave this place when I'm fed up with it, but most locals are kind of stuck.
And this is a lot of why they're turning so hostile to foreigners. :)
Yes, that is a big part of it.

On a lot of boards, I'm seeing locals blame foreigners for the crowds on the MRT and rising prices of everything.

So, we cause the problem, but we can leave any time!

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 11:02 am

For them it's we leave the sooner the better.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by v4jr4 » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 11:38 am

the lynx wrote:
offshoreoildude wrote:Good on them. Of course others from other less well off countries will continue to erode the expat package basis in order to get out of their home country or get a job.
That's because they are not expats (in Singaporean context). They are just transient workers or cheap foreign labour, whichever way you put it.
I wonder if Singaporeans can survive without them (I can only assume those transient or cheap foreign workers are the source of complaints).

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Post by zzm9980 » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 1:02 pm

sensei_ wrote:
zzm9980 wrote:And this is a lot of why they're turning so hostile to foreigners. :)
You mean you would stay and fight on? I certainly wouldnt.

No, I meant they have all of the same problems with rising cost of living (some argue due to foreigners) and resent that foreigners can leave whenever they want. They're stuck here to deal with it.

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Post by Segue » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 1:37 pm

Brah wrote:This is a good and timely thread, I'm glad to see it and thanks to the OP.

So....it has not only already begun, now it's making it to the general public.

And this is just the start. At least that's what it seems like from all I've been hearing.

Re the two who turned down their offers, this seems more from a cost perspective - there are intellectual / cultural / cosmopolitan consideration some may overlook, especially if they've never lived overseas and/or depending where they are from - the intellectual and cultural aspects one gives up to be here. For those it may only take being here to see it.

Sure to be flamed by that comment as whinging, which it's not, for example, culturally, I was in Tokyo recently (unfair comparison, I know, but, ) and saw the usual long and impressive list of coming music events - Classical, Rock, Jazz, R&B. Here we get old retreads on their last legs like Toto, Duran Duran, New Order - some of that stuff I really like in their heyday, but a lot of acts don't make it here.

Intellectually, comparing Singapore's IS vs. Japan's Metropolis is not unlike comparing a high school newsletter vs. a newspaper. the dumbed-downess is pervasive and soul-draining.

Fashion-wise, while there are a lot of wacky-ly dressed people in Japan, and they have their fair share of unfashionable people walking around, me and mine felt pretty out of touch there, with so many good-looking and well-dressed oshare people everywhere. While I'm not so fashion-minded, I don't like looking like I buy all my clothes in a suburban mall. That was a wake-up call....

Edits: fixed incomplete post
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Re vishalgupta2's post:
Interesting that you find food cheaper here than in the States, I always have thought otherwise. There is cheap cheap stuff like in food courts, but as I don't eat that stuff I do my comparisons about more mid-range dining, and I think it's cheaper, better value for money, and much more variety in the States. Agree with you re the quality

I'm not saying that because I'm from there, but that's just my observation and opinion, others are free to disagree.

I would disagree re the cost of living being more expensive in the States than here, except perhaps in Silicon Valley, midtown Manhattan, or sect few other places.
Actually I was trying to make that argument that there is are rich cultural experiences and lots to do here in the region. These people were not first time overseas, and did understand what I had to say, but were nonetheless intimidated with the material sacrifices they would have to make.

I was there too. My first offer to Singapore I turned down. A year later, I changed my mind and the position was still there. It was the best decision I have ever made and there are no regrets.

However, as I mentioned its much less painful when you have eased into a gradually declining standard of living over time. If I were looking at the decision now, it would be much more difficult than it was 7 years ago (everything else being equal).

I'm wondering how many similar cases there are out there. Also long term, will Singapore still be competitive as an overseas base for multinational corporations? No problem for financial services where $15K a month rent is considered affordable, but what about all the other sectors like IT, services, tourism, logistics and manufacture?

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Post by curiousgeorge » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 3:46 pm

Brah wrote:...I was in Tokyo recently (unfair comparison, I know, but, ) and saw the usual long and impressive list of coming music events - Classical, Rock, Jazz, R&B. Here we get old retreads on their last legs like Toto, Duran Duran, New Order - some of that stuff I really like in their heyday, but a lot of acts don't make it here.
That's not a cultural issue, its a financial one.

A major artist can ask north of S$2m for a concert. Plus the tech, travel, rider, promo costs etc. You have to fill the indoor stadium with 16,000 people each paying more than $150 to make the numbers work.

Maybe Gardens By The Bay will be Singapore's saviour, financially, for the 'big' acts who want $$$.

Having said that, if you look at the old MICA statistics on the number of people who have attended cultural events in any given year, its pretty high - 80%+ IIRC.
But the number of people willing to pay to attend a cultural event is shocking low. Less than 20%.

That's only 800,000 willing to pay for gigs/concerts/theatre/exhibitions on this little red dot. Once you factor in tastes and lifestyle, that drops significantly. For instance, across all theatres the combined database on theatre-goers in Singapore is less than 300,000 people.

I guess in a cause-and-effect kind of way that people's cultural habits here are motivated by their financial situation/limitations.

And if you read the 2012 Arts & Culture Strategic Review, Singapore has a massive plan in place to improve culture in Singapore...not of course to allow people to challenge the status quo in Art, but to promote Singapore oneness and history in the heartlands ;)

Sorry for the OT...

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Post by x9200 » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 4:57 pm

I think it's cultural. No critical mass of local people willing to attend such event. For all the oversees group concerts in Singapore I've seen the significant fraction if not the majority of the audience were Caucasians. This fraction is also higher than country average for the local classical music concerts or theatrical events.

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Post by the lynx » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 5:16 pm

x9200 wrote:I think it's cultural. No critical mass of local people willing to attend such event. For all the oversees group concerts in Singapore I've seen the significant fraction if not the majority of the audience were Caucasians. This fraction is also higher than country average for the local classical music concerts or theatrical events.
I have to agree. Every time I attend a recital or such events, I can tell that there is a significant number of non-locals attending those events.

For one thing, for the 'pragmatic' locals, it is not financially-wise to spend to attend those events.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 5:20 pm

the lynx wrote:
x9200 wrote:I think it's cultural. No critical mass of local people willing to attend such event. For all the oversees group concerts in Singapore I've seen the significant fraction if not the majority of the audience were Caucasians. This fraction is also higher than country average for the local classical music concerts or theatrical events.
I have to agree. Every time I attend a recital or such events, I can tell that there is a significant number of non-locals attending those events.

For one thing, for the 'pragmatic' locals, it is not financially-wise to spend to attend those events.
Nor to dress properly when they do. :-|
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by nakatago » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 5:22 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
the lynx wrote:
x9200 wrote:I think it's cultural. No critical mass of local people willing to attend such event. For all the oversees group concerts in Singapore I've seen the significant fraction if not the majority of the audience were Caucasians. This fraction is also higher than country average for the local classical music concerts or theatrical events.
I have to agree. Every time I attend a recital or such events, I can tell that there is a significant number of non-locals attending those events.

For one thing, for the 'pragmatic' locals, it is not financially-wise to spend to attend those events.
Nor to dress properly when they do. :-|
...well, some women wear shorts or cocktail dresses as office wear. What more for such a concert?
"A quokka is what would happen if there was an anime about kangaroos."

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 5:24 pm

A cocktail dress is not proper attire for a recital or operatic performance. Neither is a business suit or just a shirt & tie.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by Segue » Fri, 24 Aug 2012 5:35 pm

the lynx wrote:
x9200 wrote:I think it's cultural. No critical mass of local people willing to attend such event. For all the oversees group concerts in Singapore I've seen the significant fraction if not the majority of the audience were Caucasians. This fraction is also higher than country average for the local classical music concerts or theatrical events.
I have to agree. Every time I attend a recital or such events, I can tell that there is a significant number of non-locals attending those events.

For one thing, for the 'pragmatic' locals, it is not financially-wise to spend to attend those events.
Maybe if they can use it to brag about how cultured they were it would be a way to boost their status among their colleagues

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